Non-gravity folder?

[melt]

Hold almost any pocket clip/ thumb-stud or hole knife tip up with the blade away from your palm and you can flip it open and immediately have it in an ice pick grip.

 

[Jeff Clark]

Generally the laws state that if you can flip the blade open while holding the handle it is a "gravity knife". I don't think a knife that you can open with a "handle drop" would qualify. If you want a knife that is hard to flick open and takes a bit of skill to even handle drop take a look at a Mercator Kat. Both the blade and the handle are pretty light. It is still pretty tough since it is all steel, blade and handle.

http://www.worldknives.com/products/mercator-german-k55-cat-knife-k55k-1120.html

 

[akennedy73]

May I ask where you are ??

ttyle

Eric
O/ST

I'm in NYC. Not the most knife-friendly place... :grumpy:

Sal has a good point that it is all about the knife opening quickly. If the knife can be flicked open pointed down, swung accross the body, or held by the blade and the handle swung open, it is often considered a gravity knife in areas that forbid gravity knives. I have several EDCs that I have tightened to the point where they are hard to open anyway you try and will not flick at all. The Bees wax is interesting and I will try that too....

So, in your opinion, would the CRKT BladeLock still be considered a gravity knife? Is the mere fact that it locks close not sufficient since the lock could be disengaged and then the knife flicked open?

I understand that these issues aren't clear cut and I'm not looking for legal advice - but, still, I'm looking for any guidance that's available. I've read some of your other posts addressing this issue and I know that you've spent some time considering it. Do you think the best solution is just to maintain a very tight pivot?

 

[akennedy73]

(Right now my EDC is limited to a SAK and a Benchmade Benchmite for this reason)

uh-oh, i just realized i can flick my benchmade benchmite

i just squeeze the handle to release the lock and it can be flicked open....

guess i'm just another outlaw carrying a deadly 1-7/8" blade on the mean streets of NYC...

 

[flip]

On the Bladelock, if the blade is closed it is locked. The release is built in to the thumbstud in the blade. I'm not a NYC cop but I don't see how anyone could say it is a gravity knife. Your thumb has to be pushing in the thumb stud as you push it up and out to open the knife.

 

[GarageBoy]

Pinch thumbstud against blade and "spydie drop"...
all depends on how good of a mood is the cop is on that day

 

[kjbenner]

What about the Paul knives by Lone Wolf? They open with something akin to a "handle drop"--so no thumbstud or hole. I've never handled one, but I believe the way the mechanism works it's locked in place when closed.

 

[knarfeng]

Generally the laws state that if you can flip the blade open while holding the handle it is a "gravity knife". I don't think a knife that you can open with a "handle drop" would qualify.

By that definition, most lockbacks would not be considered gravity knives.
At least I find it impossible to flick open any of mine.

 

[Greg]

The Fallkniven P series (I have a P3G) has a very strong detent and I find it impossible to flick open even with a handle drop.
Greg

 

[Sal Glesser]

We've found that most of the police that are pushing the "gravity knife" issue are quite adept at inertia opening most knives.

I've even seen a situation where the blade was partially opened with the thumb and forefinger and "flicked" the rest of the way open, and still the knife was deemed to be a "gravity knife.

The law is based on the fears of the "cop on the steet" confronting a "suspect" that might be able to suddenly produce a life threatening weapon hidden in his closed hand.

The fear is understandable, especially in these violent times, but I don't feel that a "law" will alleviate that situation.

However, continued confiscations and arrests are growing. It is not just in the US. There are a number of other countries pushing various knife issues.

sal

 

[Greptile]

Actually, 110's are easy - pinch the blade, the handle will fall away with little effort.

You can also hold the handle with the hinge down, press down on the lock with your index finger and then with a light flick gravity does the rest.

The "gravity knife" laws are silly at best. Especially when bizarre contortions are necessary to get the knife to open that way. It would be interesting to see how well some of the interpretations would stand up in court, but I'm certainly not volunteering

 

[Sal Glesser]

The "gravity knife" laws are silly at best. Especially when bizarre contortions are necessary to get the knife to open that way. It would be interesting to see how well some of the interpretations would stand up in court, but I'm certainly not volunteering

Especially complicated by the fact that each court is different.

In the end, I believe that we will all need to be aware of how we enjoy our knife interest in our everday carry. Indignation about the illogical laws will not keep you from being arrested or harrassed.

I don't want to volunteer either

sal

 

[dulleddown]

My vote is for a chive or a delica. If A/O is okay (likely not as it opens fast, but does not actually 'flick open with centrifugal force') then the chive is fine, or go with a scallion or leek if you want a longer blade.

THe delica, or CodeofLight's suggestion of the similar Endura is a no brainer too... can't go wrong with Spyderco.

Sorry that you're living under such arcane laws....

 

[RLR]

If you're worried, get a nice slip joint and open it two-handed. I think that 99.9% of the time, a slippy will work for any chore. For other tasks like hunting or hiking or other non-city things, get a fixed blade.

One hand opening is cool, but a nice slip joint in exotic materials can be just as cool.

 

[carrot]

The Spyderco UKPK is pretty difficult to Spyderdrop, and it is also a slipjoint, so theoretically it is a safe carry in NYC. I am excited for the Spyderco Urban, as it seems to be another good alternative.

Personally, I carry a Caly3 and I have seen no problems yet. In the city I walk right by police with it clipped to my pocket. Sometimes I wonder if it were not a low-rider wire clip whether I'd have been picked up already.

 

[tom19176]

Jeff, the Mercator Kat knife( I have six) are good knives and are hard to flick, but I CAN flick open five of the six I own. The CRT Bladelock ( I was given one as a gift) is interesting, in that you do indeed need to press the release before it can open. You are in NY and this is where the wording of the law may or may not work in your favor with this knife. The blade has to "RELEASED" from the handle by gravity or inertia. This would seem to indicate that if some other action needed to be taken then it would not be a gravity knife, HOWEVER, the knife that was truly banned by the when the NY law was written in 1958 was a true gravity knife that the blade is released from the handle after a button or lever has been pressed and the blade falls out of the handle. I know the one I have can be flicked open once the button has been pressed.
I went to a retirement dinner this week for the Chief of Patrol for the NYPD, and met several old friends ( a Chief in Manhatten, a Chief in Brooklyn, a Capatin in Queens, and two Sargents), I in the course of conversation asked all of them if there were any new enforcement push on knives and I was given the same anser by all of them. A gravity knife falls in the deadly weapon classification along with many other weapons. The push is on for weapon arrests in general, and is even pushed harder when there is any rise in the robbery rate in any command. Basically if robberies or assaults are up then officers ( mostly details) are directed to concentrate on making weapons arresst. If you are breaking the city ordinance by carrying the knife exposed any way ( clip showing included) then you are allowing the officer the right to see if your knife is now the feared gravity knife. Of course this is not fair to the otherwise honest person who is carring a knife that he thinks is legal. In my years enforcing the law, I always had the attitude of Andy Taylor from Mayberry that you had to weave common sense into the law. I would only recommend carrying very tight blades any where in NYS and only non locking blades under 4" and in your pocket in NYC.....

 

[akennedy73]

Jeff, the Mercator Kat knife( I have six) are good knives and are hard to flick, but I CAN flick open five of the six I own. The CRT Bladelock ( I was given one as a gift) is interesting, in that you do indeed need to press the release before it can open. You are in NY and this is where the wording of the law may or may not work in your favor with this knife. The blade has to "RELEASED" from the handle by gravity or inertia. This would seem to indicate that if some other action needed to be taken then it would not be a gravity knife, HOWEVER, the knife that was truly banned by the when the NY law was written in 1958 was a true gravity knife that the blade is released from the handle after a button or lever has been pressed and the blade falls out of the handle. I know the one I have can be flicked open once the button has been pressed.....

That was my line of thinking but as you point out the interpretation of the law is still ambiguous.

I think the purchase of a slipjoint is in my future - no sense in running the risk just to have a pocketknife that locks open.

Thanks for the valuable info - it's much appreciated! :thumbup:

 

[GarageBoy]

One of my customers who came into the store I work in was nailed for carrying a Strider and a Emerson, central booked, 10 days community service. He worked as a chef too..
Then theres the two guys on Spyderco forums, the guys in the knife laws forums and me..

Someone should design a knife with an interlock. Not a lock to hold blade open or shut, but something that jars the blade from opening all the way w/o pressing something

 

[spinynorman]

Sal wrote, "The fear is understandable, especially in these violent times..."

Sal, I think you do yourself and the industry a disservice. Put bluntly, "these times" are not particularly violent. A perusal of FBI records and various criminology studies will verify that violent crime in this country is near all-time historical lows. Violent crime is very visible in mass media, but quantitatively we are about as safe as we have ever been in the U.S.

 

[SIFU1A]

When I tried out a Sebenza I was pretty sure it was unflickable. Maybe some owners can chime in?

the seb is easily inertia opened FWIW, as are any liner, frame, axis, or compression lock unless the pivot is tightened down some.