non-perforated washers

That's what I guessed, just wanted to not be guessing. :)

I think it's hard to extrapolate any conclusions from the dimensional differences you noted. If CRK could manage tolerances down to, say, .0001", they'd mail out washers. As it is, they require knives to be returned to CRK for new washers so that fit and function can be verified, so there must be (obviously) dimensional tolerances that affect function and lockup.
 
JNewell said:
That's what I guessed, just wanted to not be guessing. :)

I think it's hard to extrapolate any conclusions from the dimensional differences you noted. If CRK could manage tolerances down to, say, .0001", they'd mail out washers. As it is, they require knives to be returned to CRK for new washers so that fit and function can be verified, so there must be (obviously) dimensional tolerances that affect function and lockup.
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Agreed.
 
Maybe it was a move to sell more grease. ...

All of mine are perforated, I would like non perforated ones to try them out.
 
Muaddib1116 said:
Agreed.
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You got my curiosity going, so I dug out a bushing/washer set from a Classic that I had converted to perf'd washers when I had it double-lugged. I put the bushing and washers into a same-year Regular (both 2006 knives) to check the fit. The transplanted set was a little tight. The action was definitely stiffer...functional, but not what we expect from CRK. I have no idea how many ten-thousandths the difference is, but it illustrated for me why they want the knives sent back to the factory when washers are changed.
 
The biggest thing I notice between the two washer types is that the perforated washers definitely let gunk IN. I personally see the "upgrade" as nothing other than negative. Sebenzas are, IMO, the overall best folding knife around and I'll deal with it but I strongly prefer the older washers.
The main prob I have with them is with water. If one of my perf'd Sebs gets wet that water STAYS in the pivot for quite a while. The water in the perforations kinda creates a suction or something which causes a 3x drag in smoothness. I've never had a problem with rust on a Seb until the perf'd washers. Also my preferred method of cleaning - no takedown - just scrubbing it down with hot, soapy, water - doesn't work well anymore since it definitely holds the water and likely soap too.

If it were an "option" I'd take the solid washers every time.
 
Its an interesting discussion. Chris must have great faith in those perforations, because its gotta take a lot of effort to add them. Whether they are drilled or punched, there's more manufacturing and finishing involved. I would guess each perorated washer starts its life as a non-perforated washer, so its all very intentional, unless they punch out the whole thing at once. I suppose what Im saying is I can't imagine them bothering, unless they believed strongly it was better, so I believe they must have done a lot of their own comparison testing prior to making the switch.
 
Excellant point, I'm sure it costs a bit to add the holes.

kidcongo said:
Its an interesting discussion. Chris must have great faith in those perforations, because its gotta take a lot of effort to add them. Whether they are drilled or punched, there's more manufacturing and finishing involved. I would guess each perorated washer starts its life as a non-perforated washer, so its all very intentional, unless they punch out the whole thing at once. I suppose what Im saying is I can't imagine them bothering, unless they believed strongly it was better, so I believe they must have done a lot of their own comparison testing prior to making the switch.
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I'm not sure I would have said that out loud, but based on what things look like when I have taken knives with perf'd washers apart to clean and relubricate them, I have to say that either you're right or it sure looks that way, even though it never really made sense to me. (How could stuff get into the holes, given the tolerances we're working with?)

archieblue said:
The biggest thing I notice between the two washer types is that the perforated washers definitely let gunk IN. I personally see the "upgrade" as nothing other than negative. Sebenzas are, IMO, the overall best folding knife around and I'll deal with it but I strongly prefer the older washers.
The main prob I have with them is with water. If one of my perf'd Sebs gets wet that water STAYS in the pivot for quite a while. The water in the perforations kinda creates a suction or something which causes a 3x drag in smoothness. I've never had a problem with rust on a Seb until the perf'd washers. Also my preferred method of cleaning - no takedown - just scrubbing it down with hot, soapy, water - doesn't work well anymore since it definitely holds the water and likely soap too.

If it were an "option" I'd take the solid washers every time.
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On a 21, 3/4 of the holes on the larger washer are exposed as the blade pivots open/closed. On the 25, both washers are large so 3/4 of all the holes are exposed when the blade rotates. On both, one or more holes are exposed while the knife rides in the pocket.
 
archieblue said:
The biggest thing I notice between the two washer types is that the perforated washers definitely let gunk IN. I personally see the "upgrade" as nothing other than negative. Sebenzas are, IMO, the overall best folding knife around and I'll deal with it but I strongly prefer the older washers.
The main prob I have with them is with water. If one of my perf'd Sebs gets wet that water STAYS in the pivot for quite a while. The water in the perforations kinda creates a suction or something which causes a 3x drag in smoothness. I've never had a problem with rust on a Seb until the perf'd washers. Also my preferred method of cleaning - no takedown - just scrubbing it down with hot, soapy, water - doesn't work well anymore since it definitely holds the water and likely soap too.

If it were an "option" I'd take the solid washers every time.
Click to expand...

Once the knife is assembled, nothing but the finest gunk is going to get between the blade and the washers, at no point are the "holes" exposed outside the blade. Although I do agree about the potential water issue. I'd suggest warming the knife a bit above room temp to help evaporate any moisture - rinse in really, really hot water.
 
iamsmiling said:
Once the knife is assembled, nothing but the finest gunk is going to get between the blade and the washers, at no point are the "holes" exposed outside the blade. Although I do agree about the potential water issue. I'd suggest warming the knife a bit above room temp to help evaporate any moisture - rinse in really, really hot water.
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On my 21, each of the holes is about 1/2 exposed, on the large washer side, at the but end of the blade, as the knife rotates. When in pocket one hole (perforation) is open to the elements. I don't know on the 25 as I don't have one. I don't think its an issue, but the holes can fill with junk without having to get past the blade as Archieblue has stated. You might want to take another look.
 
So, after reading this thread I can't help but wonder when to add Kool Aid..and do you mix it first? Seems to me the straight powder would be to gritty, but when mixed with water to thin?? :confused:
Just a little humor with my coffee! !:D
Seriously, very interesting discussion. And I'm just jealous that I have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation....
 
Mix the powder with a little liquid to minimize clumping. Add a few ice cubes or crushed ice and shake vigorously to mix and chill. Add the rest of the water and enjoy. ;)

mikepapa1 said:
So, after reading this thread I can't help but wonder when to add Kool Aid..and do you mix it first? Seems to me the straight powder would be to gritty, but when mixed with water to thin?? :confused:
Just a little humor with my coffee! !:D
Seriously, very interesting discussion. And I'm just jealous that I have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation....
Click to expand...
 
Ahhh!! Thanks JNewell!! I'm drinking the Kool Aid!! :)

JNewell said:
Mix the powder with a little liquid to minimize clumping. Add a few ice cubes or crushed ice and shake vigorously to mix and chill. Add the rest of the water and enjoy. ;)
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