Noose cutter

CWL said:
EMT/Medical shears. $4-6 each and they can cut rough cloth, leather, cords, braided wire and sheet metal. Best thing is that you probably already have them available.

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I agree, but don't cheap out on them. It is not much more to get a nicer one, the cheap ones will barely cut paper.

Get yourself a nice tacticool high speed low drag one :p ($10):
ZZ-0064_a.jpg


It has served me well for years and has cut plenty of things, including thick leather jackets, thick leather belts, zippers, and even a barburry jacket once :thumbup:
 
Your problem is that you want a force multiplier that can't be used as a weapon, the issue with this is I don't think anyone here has seen anything that's weapon proof.

The closest thing to think of is a ring style safety cutter.

The safest I've seen is a very small razor in a molded plastic handle, but I'm not sure how well that blade could handle wire, and as you've mentioned the material could be thick and in that case would not fit into the "mouth" of the cutter.

I understand that saving lives is important, and that you really want to be relatively safe if a person took it from you.

I recommend a ring style safety cutter in a custom kydex sheath, how you secure it in the sheath would be up to you to design.
 
The situation sounds like a catch-22, with no way to win. The shears give the best shot at meeting the objective of saving the life without providing a fearsome weapon to the "suicide." What about getting back up before cutting the guy loose? Your first duty is to protect your own life if these guys are as dangerous as you suggested.
 
If they are using something metal to strangle themselves then a straight edge knife will not be the best choice so I would say go serrated. I read a story recently where a guy atop radio antennas had to cut a friend free. The metal cable was pulled tight by the weight of some fallen piece and the serrations on his CRKT M16 (i think) was able to saw through the cable eventually. The serrations would of course cut through any cloth, or rope with ease.
You definitely want something that you could get in between their neck and the rope but not cut them. Then you also should consider if you knew it would cut them which part is the safest to cut? The front, sides or back of the neck?
I am a first responder and could face this someday but have not really given it much thought. I was thinking seatbelts and self defense more.

Maybe i would suggest the CRKT bear claw serrated with the safety tip. The handle with the hole would be easy to retain, it could not stab you but the edge could still cut you.
Perhaps some combination of the bear claw and a safety hook from benchmade. One where the knife still has a decent length of blade but the hook extends down enough so that it would be hard to get a serious cut against a person.

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CWL said:
The OP doesn't want the tool to be taken away by the "suicide" and used against the rescuer.
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OR taken away by the "suicide's" friends who are standing behind you and used against you. The only way shears would work is if there was some kind of foolproof retention holster that could be used by men or women... let's just call it a workforce where the term "diverse" is taken to an extreme you can hardly imagine. 18-80, 100lbs to 420lbs, fit, some have bad arthritis, but none may be discriminated against in the workplace. They ALL do the same job, so it has to work for everybody.

I almost would want it to self-destruct in the act of cutting through the noose so that even if dropped, it would remain harmless.

And yes, you do have to cut the noose. You can't let them go through with it, unless you want to stand in front of a judge and explain yourself and face charges.
 
like em sharp said:
Benchmade Rescue 5 or 7. The cutting edge is so far recessed in to the cutout slot that it would be extremely difficult to actually hurt someone with it. They also have finger rings instead of standard handles so they're difficult to wrestle away.
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That's the closest I've seen to something that might be workable. But I absolutely guarantee you that somebody's going to leave it sitting on a chair and the wrong person is going to get their hands on it. Unless a retention holster was part of the deal.

More and more I think this would have to be a two piece item with a belt and a leg strap, with some kind of locking mechanism that would cover anything sharp or anything you could grab on to, and that even a very mismatched fight would still take at least 30 seconds to get it away from whoever was holding it. 30 seconds is a long time sometimes. Preferably something that could be made unusable during a struggle, like if you hit a switch on the side it would clamp something shut with a permanent tungsten clamp, and you would have to throw it away. The expense would be worth it.
 
THose north american rescue trauma shears are the bees knees, the thing is that they might not bee what your looking for (i own 3 sets)]

personally id be all about a zt strider shroud cutter, other than the potential of use as an impact weapon (which is any damn thing) it hase zero potential as a weapon like less than a rolled up magazine. its got a ton of retention cause its made for jumping out of planes and it can be slipped around most anything you would need to cut, if someone gets ahold of 2 inch manilla rope your not doing your job and they are really determined to off themselves. it will cut through soft wire if you put your weight into it.

its less than 50 bucks and comes with all the retention you need as well as easy access for emergencies.
http://www.bladehq.com/item--Zero-Tolerance-JB2-Shroud--3138
 
Peak_Oil said:
That's the closest I've seen to something that might be workable. But I absolutely guarantee you that somebody's going to leave it sitting on a chair and the wrong person is going to get their hands on it. Unless a retention holster was part of the deal.
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The Benchmade hooks come with a holster/sheath that you can put on your belt, either in nylon or molded plastic. I've also seen people just loop a piece of cord through the strap on the holster and wear it around their necks underneath a shirt - they're relatively light pieces. You can see the sheath choices on there Benchmade product page:

http://www.benchmade.com/products/5

Another option might be the CRKT Extrik-8-R, it comes with a fitted Kydex sheath that again can be worn around the neck, on a strap or on the belt:

http://www.crkt.com/McGowan-Extrik-8-R-Seat-Belt-Cutter-Satin-KydexSheath
 
Chameleonbear said:
After looking through the local knife shop's online catalog, the thing that I found that would work BEST, although given the situation you're describing nothing will actually completely fulfill your requirements, the Nov8 ResQMe Keychain Rescue Tool would be the best bet.
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That's 99% of it. The blade is covered until use, and I bet the push of a button could permanently retract the blade. I like that.

The one we have now must be an inch, inch and a quarter open to the sharp. It stays locked in a steel cabinet for that reason, which makes it useless in an emergency. You could carry something like that if it had a retract button instead of a window puncher, but I bet the mechanism is similar. It looks like it would be cheap to manufacture so even if somebody pushed the button through your jeans as a joke you could throw it away and it's no big deal, just get another one out of the box of 100 in the storage room.

The problem with the ones with large openings is that you could rip somebody's ears off, get between their fingers with it, anything you can think of. I can think of three specific instances where one of my coworkers would have absolutely been scalped with one of those, and maybe have their whole face ripped off.

Those things could be on every single coworker's keys 100% of the time, and anybody would be able to assist.

I think you're 99% of the way to a winner. I wonder if I could get together with a mechanical engineer and design something like that and make my millions and retire.
 
Bill1170 said:
The situation sounds like a catch-22, with no way to win. The shears give the best shot at meeting the objective of saving the life without providing a fearsome weapon to the "suicide." What about getting back up before cutting the guy loose? Your first duty is to protect your own life if these guys are as dangerous as you suggested.
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Something that used to happen at this place was that several people would stage a fight, one of my coworkers would go in to break it up, and both combatants AND their three roommates would suddenly turn and pound away on that coworker. A hanging could be staged, although conditions have changed over the years. The MOST one of my coworkers would face would be 2 on 1 instead of possibly 6 on 1 due to various changes in the construction of the building.

I highly doubt someone would stage a hanging to get their hands on a weapon, but there's the odd chance... I've seen some pretty heartless shit happen over the years. Or somebody could hang his roommate, call for help, and take the device.

Deviousness knows no boundaries.
 
Peak_Oil said:
Something that used to happen at this place was that several people would stage a fight, one of my coworkers would go in to break it up, and both combatants AND their three roommates would suddenly turn and pound away on that coworker. A hanging could be staged, although conditions have changed over the years. The MOST one of my coworkers would face would be 2 on 1 instead of possibly 6 on 1 due to various changes in the construction of the building.

I highly doubt someone would stage a hanging to get their hands on a weapon, but there's the odd chance... I've seen some pretty heartless shit happen over the years. Or somebody could hang his roommate, call for help, and take the device.

Deviousness knows no boundaries.
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Sounds like you work at a Vision Quest facility or similar.
 
I would recommend the
open the locked cupboard, and grab the extremely unsafe seatbelt ripper that I have available
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. Hopefully by that time the help will have arrived and the 7 month pregnant woman will have lots of back up going in. Never use non issued gear in a life or death situation when you have a choice. Never get in such a hurry that you put yourself or co workers even at a little risk when it can be prevented. Sometimes it can't, but in those cases you try to stack the deck in your favor and hope for the best.

I personally would rather have an inmate suicide in my unit than an injured staff. That really is what it boils down to.
 
What about the small size ratcheting cable shears? you could have the ratchet pin on a tether so if the tool is taken, the shears wont ratchet. They can still be used as an impact weapon or the arm can be removed to make a hook, but they'd still need to sharpen it and I have trouble sharpening bowl hooks so I don't know how they'd manage. I'm loath to post a picture as I got warned for "deal spotting" last time.
 
Peak_Oil said:
OR taken away by the "suicide's" friends who are standing behind you and used against you. The only way shears would work is if there was some kind of foolproof retention holster that could be used by men or women... let's just call it a workforce where the term "diverse" is taken to an extreme you can hardly imagine. 18-80, 100lbs to 420lbs, fit, some have bad arthritis, but none may be discriminated against in the workplace. They ALL do the same job, so it has to work for everybody.

I almost would want it to self-destruct in the act of cutting through the noose so that even if dropped, it would remain harmless.

And yes, you do have to cut the noose. You can't let them go through with it, unless you want to stand in front of a judge and explain yourself and face charges.
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What you want seems almost too expensive or not feasible.
If you want it to disintegrate after use then i doubt it would cut metal wire.
A system that would cover the blade making it permanently safe seems awfully hard to engineer at a price you would be willing to throw away.
If you saw someone attempting to commit suicide and attempted but failed you would not be arrested and facing charges. If you did absolutely nothing then perhaps but if something prevented you from helping then you wouldn't get in trouble. People that help but fail are usually protected by good samaritan type laws.
I rather doubt that a tool would be taken away from you and used against you at an attempted suicide. They wan't to hurt themselves not you and I highly doubt that some friend is going to be waiting in the shadow ready to jump out and kill you with your own tool just to aid his friend.

Furthermore if someone was fighting with you to such an extreme extent that it would be dangerous to aid them then you could always wait till they pass out and then cut the rope off their neck. As long as you do it in a short amount of time they will wake up just as how someone will wake up after being choked out in martial arts practice. Brain damage from oxygen loss starts at about 2 minutes.

Peak you are over thinking this one. The scenario that you are trying to plan for is not going to happen. Are you a first responder?
 
eyeeatingfish said:
Peak you are over thinking this one. The scenario that you are trying to plan for is not going to happen. Are you a first responder?
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I have nothing to say about my workplace, other than all those things have happened there over the years.

I would be the first or second responder, but not a "First Responder" in certain interpretations of that phrase. My job is to make sure that the suicide is foiled. That said, I am a First Responder and then some. I think it would be worth a thousand US dollars to produce such an item, and that at least 3,000 would be bought by my facility immediately.

I have been in charge and on duty when three nooses were cut from people who were under my direct care, so I would like a tool that works properly the first time, every time, no matter who deploys it, fall consequences be damned. It would cost my facility more than $5,000 to defend against a civil lawsuit from the family of a.... friend of mine. $1000 would be cheap, and be remembered on St. Crispian's Day. However, I do not wish to put my staff's life at stake in any way carring a gadget that could wind up with a very inexpensive nose job or a scalping, etc.
 
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