Normal 20CV behavior?

brownshoe said:
Do a Good, Bad &Ugly search on Bark River and its owner. I wouldn't be suprised by anything. I belive the Micocanadian has been made in many steels.
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I was very aware of the controversy surrounding Bark River and Mr Stewart prior to purchasing this knife. I even... read Mr Stamp's opinion of the brand. I decided to go ahead with the purchase regardless because:

1. I don't abuse my knives and don't require tremendous performance out of them
2. I like BRKT's choice of handle materials
3. Few other brands offer pocketable Canadian belt knives
4. I can afford to form my own opinion through personal experience

If by mentioning the many steels you're suggesting my blade might be improperly identified, I'll admit the idea crossed my mind. But I'd rather not stir up too much drama here. All I can say is this knife will ultimately decide whether or not I ever buy a Bark River again.

Dangerously said:
That's not what I'd take from it. I expect good stain resistance from 20CV. If my adventurer stained from an apple, you bet it'd be returned.
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Hmm, you're probably right. Again, I'm trying to stay positive. Returns are a bit complicated where I reside, but if the staining gets out of hand, I guess I'll get to see first hand how BRKT's warranty stacks up to the hype.
 
For the record, here's what it looks like one apple and half a banana later. Haven't given it the vinegar bath yet.

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brownshoe said:
Theirs is the only one I know of. However is it a "canadian belt knife" if it wasn't made in Canada by Grohman? :)
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I don't bring this up much, but Bark River's "Canadian" belt knives lack the actual ergonomics, blade angle and offset of the grohmanns. They don't really work the same. They may be great knives, but they only share a vaguely leaf shaped blade.

That said, grohmann's smallest fixed blade classic belt knife design, the #2, is still pretty long. It's not really easily pocketable, unless you wear cargo pants. So if one is looking for pocketable, go folding or look elsewhere.
 
Hi ForgedMaple . Welcome to bladeforums ! I can't comment on CPM20CV . I'm interested how your vinegar bath turns out so keep us posted.
 
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skyhorse said:
Hi ForgedMaple . Welcome to bladeforums ! I can't comment on CPM20CV . I'm interested how your vinegar bath turns out so keep us posted.
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Thanks for the welcome Skyhorse. I was off work today, so I went ahead with the vinegar experiement and here are my results. I now have my answer, I'll let you guys form your own opinion from the evidence presented.

Here is a picture of my setup. I made sure nothing would move so the vinegar would only affect a specific part of the blade.

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At about 10:00am, I went ahead and poured Heinz brand white vinegar in the plate.

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It's now 10:01am.

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10:04am

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10:05am

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10:07am

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10:10am

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At this point, I washed the blade with soap. The tarnish is now visible in absolutely all lighting conditions. It is not subtle at all.

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And to make sure I don't get accused of some elaborate tampering, as is often the case in these scenarios, here is a screenshot from my phone with timestamps

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And here is the link to KSF, where I bought the knife, indicating it is clearly 20CV

https://www.knivesshipfree.com/bark-river-knives-mini-canadian-cpm-20cv-aged-copper-burl/

The handle material is unique, and you can see in my picture the wood grain is 100% the same as on KSF's website.

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And one last thing. While I don't have precise calipers, my measurements with a ruler seem to indicate the blade stock is 0.150in thick, not 0.125in thick as advertised on all 20CV models. You can take this with a grain of salt for now (it's quite hard to measure a 0.025in difference with a ruler), but I'm planning on buying digital calipers soon and I'll post a picture or a video of myself taking exact measurements to help and clear things up.

So in conclusion, here are some hypotheses:

1. Heinz had a mix up and put hydrofluoric acid instead of vinegar in my bottle. Also, ambrosia apples are the most corrosive apples on Earth
2. BRKT willingly heat-treated the 20CV blade to maximize every parameter, except for corrosion resistance
3. Somebody, somewhere, made a mistake during the manufacturing of this knife or its materials
4. This is absolutely to be expected from 20CV. Letting mild acids come in contact with this steel is considered abuse.

Looking forward to hear what you guys think :thumbup:
 
I think this is number 3 man, I repeated your test with my zdp-189 knife, no staining in vinegar.

Hows the edge hold up?
 
Like I said, I'm a light user when it comes to EDC. I'm never out in the woods batoning stuff; I live in a big city and all this thing cut was food, tape and some packaging. It performed just fine in that environment.
 
It didn't patina - vinegar merely cleaned up slight oxidation from grinding (dipped in a water bucket full of metal particles). Maybe your blade isn't 20cv, patina indicate a steel with Cr much lower than 12%.

WeBkAKY.jpg
 
Thanks for taking the time to do your own tests guys, that's very kind and helpful.

I also forgot to mention earlier, my knife came generously coated in oil. It surprised me a little at first that a manufacturer would oil a stainless steel knife, but I thought maybe that's SOP when the bulk of your production is A2, 3V, etc. Dangerously, can you remember if your Adventurer came oiled too?
 
I don't remember if it came oiled, but it certainly didn't come generously oiled.

That level of staining looks suspicious to me. Derrick at KSF is solid, I'd get in touch and see about a return — with the attendant worry that a whole batch of these have the same issue! I'd want someone to run a test or two before I'd exchange for a knife in the same production run. Derrick is close to the manufacturer, so I'm sure they can figure out between them what's going on.

But that knife reacts completely differently to vinegar than my Adventurer 2, from the same manufacturer.
 
Dangerously said:
I don't remember if it came oiled, but it certainly didn't come generously oiled.

That level of staining looks suspicious to me. Derrick at KSF is solid, I'd get in touch and see about a return — with the attendant worry that a whole batch of these have the same issue! I'd want someone to run a test or two before I'd exchange for a knife in the same production run. Derrick is close to the manufacturer, so I'm sure they can figure out between them what's going on.

But that knife reacts completely differently to vinegar than my Adventurer 2, from the same manufacturer.
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I've contacted KSF and linked to this thread. The CS guy told me I should just contact Bark River, which is honestly something I'm not too comfortable doing after seeing how it often unfolds in the GBU. I'm a pretty quiet and non-confrontational guy by nature, and my spoken english is far from excellent, so I'm really not sure how a call with Mr Stewart would go down. Add to this that I don't live exactly close to the USA, as I'm sure you can infer from the label on my Heinz vinegar, and I feel this is gonna take quite a bit of time and effort to solve.

I guess depending on how this goes down, you'll see an update from me in GBU a couple months from now. I'll cross my fingers and hope for the best.

Thank you to all who contributed.
 
ForgedMaple said:
I've contacted KSF and linked to this thread. The CS guy told me I should just contact Bark River, which is honestly something I'm not too comfortable doing after seeing how it often unfolds in the GBU.
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I don't know about that advice. You didn't buy it from Bark River. And I haven't ever seen a bad review of KSF CS, so I'd be more inclined to stick with them as far as returns. Like you said, going to the manufacturer seems to have spotty results.
 
Dangerously said:
I don't know about that advice. You didn't buy it from Bark River. And I haven't ever seen a bad review of KSF CS, so I'd be more inclined to stick with them as far as returns. Like you said, going to the manufacturer seems to have spotty results.
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I'll admit it might have been my fault. When I contacted KSF, I started by saying I knew my purchase was past their 1 month return window and that I wasn't specifically seeking a return (again, my location). But that was before the vinegar ordeal. Let's just say my perspective has changed a little since then.

I already replied to their CS and e-mailed BRKT separately as well. I've made a few purchases through KSF in the past and have nothing but praise for Mr Bohn and his team. I'm confident we'll find a satisfactory solution somewhere in there.
 
I wonder if you possibly got a knife that was stamped with the wrong blade steel. Its acting more like their A2 than anything. I love A2 but I would be peeved if this were the case and I had paid a premium for a stainless blade. Interested in how this plays out.
 
Dangerously said:
I don't bring this up much, but Bark River's "Canadian" belt knives lack the actual ergonomics, blade angle and offset of the grohmanns. They don't really work the same. They may be great knives, but they only share a vaguely leaf shaped blade...
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I agree. When this knife came out I tried to like it, handled it a number of times. But it never felt right and the ones I saw were not stellar in fit/finish, but it was Bark River's early days. For their prices you can get a lot of knives. I like small pocket fixed blades and have gotten 3 customs at prices less than a Bark River, but they are not " super" steels.

I met the Grohman staff at a NRA national convention. They are good people, but I don't believe they "think" small knives. I do like their designsexecution and prices,but my passions don't lie with what they make.
 
ForgedMaple said:
I'll admit it might have been my fault. When I contacted KSF, I started by saying I knew my purchase was past their 1 month return window and that I wasn't specifically seeking a return (again, my location). But that was before the vinegar ordeal. Let's just say my perspective has changed a little since then.

I already replied to their CS and e-mailed BRKT separately as well. I've made a few purchases through KSF in the past and have nothing but praise for Mr Bohn and his team. I'm confident we'll find a satisfactory solution somewhere in there.
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After your vinegar soak, I don't think you should return it to KSF since it is "used" and your claim is factory defect, thus the used knife should go back to the maker.
 
brownshoe said:
After your vinegar soak, I don't think you should return it to KSF since it is "used" and your claim is factory defect, thus the used knife should go back to the maker.
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That sounds correct. But I've never been in such a situation in my life. I don't know how the law works in this instance and who can do something about the issue I'm running into. Hence why I contacted both parties. Still waiting for replies.
 
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