Northwoods Forest Jack EO Mod

Bob, as all the posters here have said, your work shows much skill. I would like to know how you decide the depth of the EO cutout. There are 2 aspects here: function, i.e. exposing enough of the blade to make it easy to pinch grip; and esthetics, meaning the size of the notch does not detract from the overall flow of the handle design.
One factor is that you do not want to expose the blade edge. But other than that, is it just your sense of artistry that determines the depth and length of the cutout ?
kj
 
Again, thank you all for the kind comments.

kj, I wish I could say that it takes an artisan's eye, but you're giving me way too much credit. :D The work itself really isn't all that difficult and I believe that with the right tools and practice, most anybody here can do it. I do like to take into account the blade shape, handle style as well as considering what depth will be most useful and comfort for the fingers to pinch the blade. So because of the shape of the Wharncliffe blade on the Forest Jack, I knew that the notch would have to be closer to the middle of the handle. But, also because of the shape of the blade's chisel grind, I could keep it somewhat closer to the tip of the blade as it gives a little more purchase for the fingers to grab the blade. Then I try to determine the depth I can go allowing for the tang kick to be taken down a bit so that the blade edge is not really exposed while at the same time, not allowing the blade to slap against the back spring.
So there are several things to consider, but as I stated, the actual work really isn't all that difficult. And with my physical limitations due to my illness, it's not very hard for my to complete it. It just depends on my state of exhaustion on any given day which has nothing to due with the work. Just some days, I don't feel like i can even manage the stairs to the basement.
But again, thank you for the comments.
 
That looks quite serviceable now. Great mod!
 
Kj and others...I'll add to what Bob has said as he did mention some of this in another thread. We both had concerns regarding this project. It's a $300 knife we're fooling around with. Not the most expensive but enough so that we both understood the risks.

So...we had a phone call and talked through the issues of notch placement and other things. Bob really knows what he's doing and ended up with a perfect placement. Asked me all the right questions and explained in detail the issues.

I was thrilled when I saw Derricks comment in the thread. That has to say something. I wish there were more EO production knives for us older guys with arthritis and fossilized bones and brains. [emoji57]
 
Fossilized bones. :D :D :D At first I thought you were referring to the Mammouth, then it struck me, you're talking about us old geezers. :D Not so sure about the brains part. :eek: :D
 
That looks great. I really like pinch able blades. I wish gec would to another run of the model 15 scout that had the easy open cut out.
 
Bob & Eye Dog, thanks for explaining the considerations that must be taken into account to get the EO notch 'just right'.
I don't think we old geezers are the problem, with or without arthritis. It is a GEC issue. No slipjoint needs a spring that makes the pull anything over about a "6". Spring tension is needed so that blade will not fall open on it's own, and so that it will not get knocked off the fully open position too easily. The spring tension on many of the GEC knives far exceeds what is needed and this is an "issue" far more serious than a liner/spring gap, or an off center blade, etc.
I have a Forest Jack in mammoth that is a 9 or even 10 as it does break nails. I work outside a fair bit so my fingers are fairly strong and my nails are thick. I intended to carry and use this beautiful Forest Jack, but whenever i pick it up to pocket for the day, i think "i don't want to deal with the struggle every time i want to cut something" and i put it down and use a different knife. I bet many others do the same. That is, this $300, Top of the Line knife is difficult to use.
The proper fix for this knife is to replace the spring with a thinner one, but that means taking it apart and wrecking the mammoth handle slabs.
If i was Derrick and laid out a lot of money and then received these defective knives, i would be hopping mad and at a minimum would let GEC know this is entirely unacceptable.
Springs as stiff as many GEC's are is a defect. To call it anything less is denial, not wanting to admit to yourself that your expensive knife 'ain't right'.
Now, before you all jump on me, i am meaning this only for those knives at the extreme end of 'too stiff', but this is actually a lot of GEC knives.
kj
 
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I think your absolutely correct Joe. There's no need for the spring to be that strong. I sold my Forest Jack for that very reason as well as a couple other knives. And they have all been GEC's.
 
The spring tension may be tight today, but five-ten years from now as the surfaces wear together it will loosen up.

If it is a concern for you, I suggest contacting Great Eastern Cutlery and have them modify the spring tension.

They're a great company and stand by their fantastic product.
 
EyeDog said:
Kj and others...I'll add to what Bob has said as he did mention some of this in another thread. We both had concerns regarding this project. It's a $300 knife we're fooling around with. Not the most expensive but enough so that we both understood the risks.

So...we had a phone call and talked through the issues of notch placement and other things. Bob really knows what he's doing and ended up with a perfect placement. Asked me all the right questions and explained in detail the issues.

I was thrilled when I saw Derricks comment in the thread. That has to say something. I wish there were more EO production knives for us older guys with arthritis and fossilized bones and brains. [emoji57]
Click to expand...

Good comment about E/O blades.I have sold many good knives at knock down prices because I cant open them.:mad:
 
Somber, wear does not alter spring tension, nor does age. If this was just an occasional problem then returning to GEC might be the right thing to do, but this is a problem affecting thousands of knives.
GEC should do the right thing like other manufacturers do and offer a "Product Recall".
If it is sent to GEC do you know what they do to 'fix' it ? The real fix is a different spring, but that's not what will happen. Any other fix is basically "hay-wiring', a makeshift solution to get around the problem.
I am not a cutler so i am open to being corrected about 'hay-wiring' because then i will learn something more about knives, which i love to do.
kj
 
I wonder if companies like GEC and Queen have any standards for back spring tension?

Not to take the thread too far afield, but my top complaint regarding retail knife sales sites is: No indication of blade pull. Even understanding it's somewhat subjective the difference between a 4 and a 9 are significant. Some folks like strong pulls...but should we not know ahead of time? I think Tyler and Jason are tired of my calls to KSF asking for the pull count before I buy now.

And yes...it's true that a strong pull can be worked with. Store it open and work it everyday for however long it takes. Did that for a few months on the Forest and got it from a 9 to an 8. Still not a comfortable pull.

Especially slipjoints that cannot be adjusted by loosening a pivot screw should at least be listed as STRONG--MEDIUM--EASY pull. How hard would that be?
 
Mike over at Collectorknives rates many knives with a pull rating. He's pretty accurate in most cases.
 
The pull on a knife is totally subjective. If you don't like it return it to the dealer, or as was done here, make it into a better knife. The pull will change with use and can be fixed w/o a new back spring per personal experience and past threads on this forum.

It is not possible to do a "recall" of knives with bad pulls, or any knife for that matter. The manufacturer does not track the product with serial numbers and does not track where the end user of the product is located. Even so, to say GEC has a serious problem with back springs, is belied by the statements of 100s of satisfied GEC customers who have posted on this form.
 
AusLoX said:
Does the notch work like a rear choil? Any pics in hand?
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I didn't take any pics in the hand, but your little finger or ring finger (depending on how you carry or how big your hand is) just fall right into the notch for a comfortable grip.
 
I'm a big GEC supporter, and I think that there is merit to the question about the >8 pulls on some of my models. The pulls on my #63's and #15's are about perfect, but my new #73 and the above mentioned FJ are a bit much, and a safety concern to be honest.
 
Whether or not a spring weakens after much use has been debated in this and other forums. The metallurgical engineers say that spring tension should not change with use if the spring was properly made ( = tempered ?). I think the easing up we can get from repeatedly opening & closing a blade is from wear between the tang and liner, not from altering spring tension.
By "product recall" i was meaning a statement on their website something like " If you have a GEC made knife with a spring so strong you struggle to open the blade, return it to us and we will make it right as best we can". In other words admit the problem and then address it.
The thousands of enthusiastic posts about GEC knives does not mean that there is no problem with spring tension. I like my Forest Jack, excellent mammoth and a neat blade once i get it open.
Brown Shoe, do you know what GEC would do to make the blade easier to open ? You say replacing the spring is not the only way, so what else can be done ?
kj
 
kootenay joe said:
Somber, wear does not alter spring tension, nor does age. If this was just an occasional problem then returning to GEC might be the right thing to do, but this is a problem affecting thousands of knives.
GEC should do the right thing like other manufacturers do and offer a "Product Recall".
If it is sent to GEC do you know what they do to 'fix' it ? The real fix is a different spring, but that's not what will happen. Any other fix is basically "hay-wiring', a makeshift solution to get around the problem.
I am not a cutler so i am open to being corrected about 'hay-wiring' because then i will learn something more about knives, which i love to do.
kj
Click to expand...

My personal experience greatly differs from your statements.
 
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