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Norton combination waterstones?

cbwoods67

cbwoods67

Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
8,189
I have been looking at the 220/1000 and 4000/8000 stones from Norton and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with them?
A quick search on the forums didn't result in much.

Thanks.
 
the 4K/8K grits are supposed to be pretty decent. The 1K not so much. My only personal experience is with a solid 220, which is garbage (and my opinion is not unique).
 
Because of all the different types of stones it really helps to know what style of knives and steels you plan to sharpen.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Because of all the different types of stones it really helps to know what style of knives and steels you plan to sharpen.
Click to expand...
Basically all of my knives. Everything from my Spyderco UKPK in S30V to my ESEE-4 in 1095. Mostly, I'm looking for good all around stones, that won't break the bank. The Nortons caught my eye, but am not necessarily set on them.
 
If you mostly have more modern stainless I would suggest a C/F/EF set of DMT diamonds. Waterstones are fun and produce great results but maybe not the best choice at this time. They tend to favor low alloy and carbon steels so something like S30V with a high vanadium content can be difficult to get a quality edge. On the opposite side of things if you only have one S30V blade in a drawer of carbon steels then picking waterstones won't be such a big deal.
 
A lot of the straight razor folks swear by the 8000. My experience with these stones (and I have all of them), is that they're OK. The grit values are very generous - the 1000 grit is comparable to a sheet of 320 grit wet/dry, and maybe closer top a 220, the 4000 is a close match for 600-800 grit wet/dry. These stones dish out very quickly in use with even the lightest touch. The 8000 is a different bird, polishes out just about every last trace of grind pattern and is quite durable compared to the rest, but is prone to loading even with carbon steel.

One thing they do as a set is to refine an edge with very little burr formation. This comes at a cost of apex refinement though, and no matter what steel I'm using, they require more post-stone finishing than any other grinding media I use to bring out a sharp edge. They grind fast, but need to be lapped often. I cannot recommend them, but can see where other folks might like them and who knows if they don't work better on higher than average RC carbon steel.

I know a lot of people don't think much of them, but I've been having very good luck with the King stones. If I could start over I'd probably invest in some higher-end stones, Bester or Chosera maybe, there are sooo many to chose from and others members can inform you better. Personally I'd skip the Nortons. On the other hand, if you really want to try them out, I have a 1000/8000 I'm willing to part with for cheap.
 
HH, thanks for the grit comparison. I have actually been using wetordry sandpaper to sharpen my knives, and am looking for a more permanent replacement.
Sounds like these stones aren't that impressive, so maybe I should look elsewhere.
 
I have a 1,000/8,000 grit combination stone from Norton and it's absolutely excellent for sharpening S30V, ZDP-189, and several other easier to sharpen steels (VG-10, VG-1, AUS-8A, SG-2, SGPS/SG-1, SR-101, INFI, 13C26, 440A, Aogami Super, Aogami #2, SK-4, x50CroMoV15, etcetera) with no problem. The 1,000 side needs to be soaked, but not for too long and the 8,000 side is a splash-n-go.

Doesn't require the babying of Choseras and may need flattening sooner than the Glasstones (I've had sets of both; kinda miss them a little, but still have my Norton 1K/8K), but it gives a sharp, shiny edge in a reasonable amount of time without costing a gazillion dollars.

That said, I'd recommend a King 800 or 1,000 grit 'deluxe' waterstone (the kind thats terra cotta-colored and usually less than $30 before shipping) and some 2,000 grit wet/dry sandpaper on a hard, flat surface.
 
I can't bring myself to badmouth them, but... I tried to like them, worked with them for a while, and in the end if they were my only exposure to waterstones I don't think I'd have bought any others. In general, I prefer waterstones to all my other tackle and as I already said, I'm just using Kings.
 
Kings are nice, too. Love using the 800 and jumping to a 4,000 or 8,000. The magpie in me prefers the shininess of the Norton 8K even though fall-through-potato sharp is the same no matter what's used.
 
How about a DMT coarse, spyderco profile rods and ultra fine bench stone?
I want something that will last me for a long time.

Thanks
 
Those are all great choices. Don't worry about waterstones wearing out quickly, though, unless you sharpen like it's a total body workout.
 
thombrogan said:
Those are all great choices. Don't worry about waterstones wearing out quickly, though, unless you sharpen like it's a total body workout.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
I feel that I have to put some strength and emotion into sharpening. I like to sweat and feel the burn. Some times I even scream at the stones to intimidate them.
:D
 
In the long run, I do think you'd be happier if you "bit the bullet" and slowly collected a set of Shaptons.

I'm well aware that they're quite pricey, (initial investment) but in the final analysis, the very best always is.
 
I had (lost) a pair of profiles, and am replacing them since they are DC'd. Not the best for regular maintenance, considering the narrow width. I would get a bench stone in the range as well. But get the profiles, great for traveling, recurves, and serrations.

The very best is pricey, so get the Shaptons. But are the best the Pros, M5s, or Glasstones? Or are the Naniwa Super Stones? Or the Chosera line? Or Sigma Power? Or a set of Japanese naturals finishing with a $30,000 final polisher? IOW, don't buy the most expensive stones unless you know what you like.
 
I believe the gentleman would be very well served with either the Shapton Pros, or the glass stones.

While they are indeed pricey, they are relatively common stones, and he wouldn't be paying a premium for an exotic stone that may not serve him any better. The offerings from Naniwa are certainly acceptable as well.

That is why I made the comment concerning "collecting" a set. If he buys one stone, and it doesn't measure up to his expectations, he can switch brands on his next stone.
 
I'm a broke college student, and I'm asking for these for Christmas. When I have some expendable income, I will definitely look into the Shapton stones.
If I went with the DMT coarse and spyderco medium, fine, and ultra fine stones, would I be in good shape?
Does anyone have bad experiences with any of these?

Thanks
 
I've got the Sharpmaker version of all three Spyderco ceramics (and a medium and fine DoubleStuff pocket ceramic) and an 8" x 3" DMT coarse plate and have had lots of enjoyment with all four. The DMT has a "breaking in" period where it cuts insanely fast, but leaves a mangled-looking edge and finish. Believing that's because the process that puts the diamonds into the plate puts diamonds on top of those other diamonds.

If you go that route instead of a medium/fine double-sided waterstone (King makes a bunch with many being affordable), use slightly soapy water or water with a pinch of baking soda on your diamond stone and whatever you want on the ceramics (probably more of the same). For some reason, the alkaline solution (can also use windex) keeps ground off steel from piling up on the surface of the diamond plates which helps keeping them from clogging up.
 
I have a Norton 220/1000 water-stone. It produces a good edge, but if I had to do it over again I would go with the DMTs. Flattening water-stones is a real pain (at least this one), and if you happen to have a lot of grinding work to do, you can dish out the stone before you're even done sharpening--and if you don't realize you have you wind up grinding unevenly and causing yourself more work.

I haven't bought another stone just because I haven't had the money to spend on something else to get my knives sharp when this works. But let's just say... If the thing hit the ground and shattered tomorrow, I'd probably try something new rather than replace it.
 
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