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I've used the DMT offerings, and they are very solid mid-grade products. Not quite the quality of an Atoma, but far superior to the "economy" brands.
Anything with the Spyderco name on it is good quality.
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Norton combination waterstones?
- Thread starter cbwoods67
- Start date
I've used the DMT offerings, and they are very solid mid-grade products. Not quite the quality of an Atoma, but far superior to the "economy" brands.
Anything with the Spyderco name on it is good quality.
Keep in mind that some of this might depend on sharpening style. I've slowly converted over to DMT diamonds and Spyderco ceramics. They will chew through any knife that I own and will ever own, and give as good a finish as I am capable of making.
I've got the Nortons 220/1000 and 4k/8k, and use those for my straight razors (not the 220). For whatever reason, I can't get a decent edge with a waterstone unless it's a guided system, such as my Edgepro or a straight razor (guided by the razor's geometry). I've given up trying to figure it out, I just accept it, and plan accordingly.
The Spyderco ultra fine seems to leave a little less polished edge than the Norton 8k, but they are close. Either one still requires a loaded strop for my razors, they are both a little too rough to go to an unloaded leather strop and then my face. If you are getting the Spyderco medium and fine, unless it's for a razor, I don't think you'd need the ultra fine. Unless you want a complete collection, of course.
I would love to try some of the more expensive water stones, but am saving money for other things...
I've got the Nortons 220/1000 and 4k/8k, and use those for my straight razors (not the 220). For whatever reason, I can't get a decent edge with a waterstone unless it's a guided system, such as my Edgepro or a straight razor (guided by the razor's geometry). I've given up trying to figure it out, I just accept it, and plan accordingly.
The Spyderco ultra fine seems to leave a little less polished edge than the Norton 8k, but they are close. Either one still requires a loaded strop for my razors, they are both a little too rough to go to an unloaded leather strop and then my face. If you are getting the Spyderco medium and fine, unless it's for a razor, I don't think you'd need the ultra fine. Unless you want a complete collection, of course.
I would love to try some of the more expensive water stones, but am saving money for other things...
I may have just gotten use to it or something, but I can't really echo the problems with getting the burrs off or getting a good sharp edge with the Nortons. My 220/1000 works great for me... So either I don't know real sharp, or I just got use to it and have learned to overcome its eccentricities. My biggest gripe is still just how much they require flattening.
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Prompted by my lackluster results in the past with the Norton waterstones, I sent mine into the drink once more and gave it my best effort. Test subject is a Kershaw Barrage that was in need of an overhaul. Reprofiled on the 220 and stropped with the slurry recovered on newspaper, then cleaned it up a bit on the 1000 grit. I've always been leery of my results with these guys, to my way of thinking if I can't get good results with an established Norton product, it HAS to be me and I was right. The edge coming off is as good as any at this grit level and better than most. While quite toothy it can still shave stubble and drops through a papertowel - can just make it through toilet paper with a little bit of snagging. With a little draw on the cut it makes it through surprisingly clean. :foot:
Bottom line to the OP - if you're willing to learn 'em, go ahead and get the combo waterstones. I still believe that ALL waterstones have a longer learning curve than other media, they're also a lot more rewarding to work with and produce great cutting edges. The Nortons are no exception and the combo stones ARE a good price.
HH
:foot:
Bottom line to the OP - if you're willing to learn 'em, go ahead and get the combo waterstones. I still believe that ALL waterstones have a longer learning curve than other media, they're also a lot more rewarding to work with and produce great cutting edges. The Nortons are no exception and the combo stones ARE a good price.
HH
:foot:
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If you're thinking dmt I like coarse through exexfine (I have an excoarse and exex coarse for repair/reprofiling) then finish with the spyderco uf then a strop. Honestly that's probably even overkill but that seems to work well for me.
That sounds more like the stone I know. Though I usually need a bit of stropping before I can make it through toilet paper at all. You must have a steadier hand.
I like the toothiness that it gives. Not quite as toothy as my 750 grit smith's diamond hone, but it's a nice mix between coarse and polished. Depending on the steel though, it generally smooths out after one or two stroppings for me.
Still though, maintenance is a pain in the butt, and it really sucks if you forget to make sure your stone is flat before sharpening. My next stones are going to be DMT Dia-Sharps. I still might get the Norton 4000/8000 combination stone just to fill out the set though.
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That sounds more like the stone I know. Though I usually need a bit of stropping before I can make it through toilet paper at all. You must have a steadier hand.
I like the toothiness that it gives. Not quite as toothy as my 750 grit smith's diamond hone, but it's a nice mix between coarse and polished. Depending on the steel though, it generally smooths out after one or two stroppings for me.
Still though, maintenance is a pain in the butt, and it really sucks if you forget to make sure your stone is flat before sharpening. My next stones are going to be DMT Dia-Sharps. I still might get the Norton 4000/8000 combination stone just to fill out the set though.
I've been doing a lot of work on my angle consistency, was getting very good results but am still improving incrementally. Don't know if you caught this thread
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/907137-A-little-waterstone-experiment
Works very well for stropping, keeping the waterstone flat, and I intend to use it for routine touch-ups even if I have to whip up a quick slurry every time. The more I work with the waterstones (King or Norton) the less I'm inclined to use anything else - though I would love to have some nicer varieties I have no intention of going back to my other methods anytime soon.
Another thought re stone dishing - if you haven't checked out any of Murray Carter's vids, he has some interesting ideas about stone maintenance that make a lot of sense. They're difficult to put in use without using his short-stroke/scrubbing method of setting a bevel, but I've been trying that out lately as well.
The 4000 grit Norton would be my next stone if I were you. Even before I had a breakthrough with the Nortons I was able to get some very sharp edges from that stone.
Does he go over that on his "basic" DVD? I think that's the only one I have. Also, cool thread, I've thought about using the slurry from my water-stones as strop compound a time or two as well.
I might just get a 4000 grit if I can find it for much cheaper than the 4000/8000. My big issue is that my blades are just about as sharp as I really want them, and it's hard to feel that the investment in a new stone would be worth it.
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I don't have any of his vids, I learned a bit from the Youtube cuts - he has one where he cuts TP and he mentions "sculpting" the stone with the knife as you sculpt the knife with the stone. It makes sense, but it also means you need to be capable of moving the edge all over the stone ( or anywhere there's clearance for fingers, thumbstuds, etc).
I like a lot of his philosophy, but I still cannot get good results backhoning - just raises a burr and I have to do some edge leading to get rid of it.
Another way to use the slurry/swarf from your waterstone without having to whip up a second stone, is to suspend the swarf and slurry by whirling it a bit with a fingertip and a few drops of water, then drop a piece of newspaper on it and gently drag it off the stone. Flip it butter-side up on your table and keep sharpening, repeat as more swarf becomes available. When you're happy with the bevel, pat the stone somewhat dry and paste the paper to your stone. Strop away till the paper tears or you're happy with it, and follow up with a piece of untreated newspaper on your stone. This makes for some wicked microtoothy edges with very little effort or gear.
I hear you about the new stones - almost a better idea to get a new knife instead, but then if I never tried new stones/methods out I never would have bought my waterstones in the first place.
I would recommend the Spyderco stones, then. I have a Norton 4k/8k that I use for straight razors. I've tried the stone on my knives, and the Norton just doesn't do a good job. The Spyderco stones work well on knives, though.