Not knives but pocket stick laws in CA

Short answer. Metal technically illegal, but if its your key chain, flashlight, heavy pen, etc, its not a pocket stick, right? Plastic and wood arguably legal to carry. Doubt anyone is going to get hassled over a pocket stick, unless you've got other issues, but your mileage may vary.

Best regards,

Argyll
 
Argyll said:
Short answer. Metal technically illegal, but if its your key chain, flashlight, heavy pen, etc, its not a pocket stick, right? Plastic and wood arguably legal to carry. Doubt anyone is going to get hassled over a pocket stick, unless you've got other issues, but your mileage may vary.

Best regards,

Argyll
Click to expand...

i agree, however check california penal code section 12020 just to make sure it doesnt fit any of the weapons descriptions there.
 
would one of these orange GFobs be illegal for carry as a keychain?
keytool001.jpg


thanks for all your help.
 
Probably would get noticed. It's a little obvious. If it was shaped more like a normal keychain or had a "primary" purpose like opening bottles it would be better.
 
I'm not sure about laws down there, but it seems a little stiff if a few inches of wood/plastic/metal with keys on the end may be an issue at all with the law.

The keychain pictured certainly doesn't look weapon-like (to the untrained eye), especially with the color (which is kinda cool by the way)...

To the untrained eye it would probably just be a silly looking keychain. I've seen wild stuff in dollar stores. I wouldn't worry about it unless in a courthouse or maybe an airport or something.

Other than that, i think Argyll hit the nail on the head about lights and pens. Kubatons or other items that may be recognised as impact weapons by folks, might land you in a tight spot with the law if they aren't so legal there (again, i don't know), but come on, a pen?

Same idea with a pen (fat, heavy, steel bodied pen) , just easyer on the eyes. Same with a Maglite, marker with aluminum body, any number of stout pocket sized office supplies that are long enough... Although it's a seriously nice lookin' impact tool. :thumbup:

By the way... "It's a keychain, the ring makes it easyer to remove from the pocket, officer."

True enough right? i imagine it does.
 
It really depends if a LEO recognizes it as a weapon. In SD situation, if you actually used it effectively for self-defense, then obviously the evidence is there that it is a weapon. Otherwise, just carrying it should't get you in ny trouble.
 
Death's Head said:
It really depends if a LEO recognizes it as a weapon. In SD situation, if you actually used it effectively for self-defense, then obviously the evidence is there that it is a weapon. Otherwise, just carrying it should't get you in ny trouble.
Click to expand...

Hey DH, this is KSH. Thanks for chiming in. If unable to use it as a SD weapon, wouldn't it defeat the whole purpose?

Also, would colors affect the amount of suspicion? there is blue, black and orange available.
 
colors may deflect some suspicion, and i agree that discretion would play a large role in an officer's decision. ca weapon laws are very restrictive, especially when it comes to concealed carry. pc12020 provides a fairly detailed list of restricted weapons.

it is obvious to me that the orange keychain is a personal weapon, but my decision to arrest/or not would depend largely on the individual, his/her attitude, circumstances surrounding discovery, etc.
 
It's pretty obvious. Handle grips, pointy things. Most cops would recognize it as a fist load pretty quickly.

A flashlight, on the other hand, look just like a flashlight, but can be used just like a kubotan.
 
The only CA law I know of that would cover pocket sticks would be PC 10202 c7:
(7) As used in this section, "metal knuckles" means any device or
instrument made wholly or partially of metal which is worn for
purposes of offense or defense in or on the hand and which either
protects the wearer's hand while striking a blow or increases the
force of impact from the blow or injury to the individual receiving
the blow. The metal contained in the device may help support the
hand or fist, provide a shield to protect it, or consist of
projections or studs which would contact the individual receiving a
blow.
Click to expand...

From that we derive that a metal object that is not a striking weapon, like a pen, marker or flashlight, is not illegal; and even a spiked brass knuckle shaped weapon made completely of plastic is not prohibited.

So unless there's a law I don't know about, the item pictured above would be perfectly legal even if it had "fistload" engraved on the side.

And, better than trusting the opinions of strangers on the internet to keep you out of jail, check the laws yourself at: http://leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html
 
Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't realize that knuckles only applied to ones that contained metal. This really solved my problem. Gotta go get me one of these now!:D :thumbup:

medusaoblongata said:
The only CA law I know of that would cover pocket sticks would be PC 10202 c7:

From that we derive that a metal object that is not a striking weapon, like a pen, marker or flashlight, is not illegal; and even a spiked brass knuckle shaped weapon made completely of plastic is not prohibited.

So unless there's a law I don't know about, the item pictured above would be perfectly legal even if it had "fistload" engraved on the side.

And, better than trusting the opinions of strangers on the internet to keep you out of jail, check the laws yourself at: http://leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html
Click to expand...
 
does this mean that that i can't posses a plastic knuck or that i can't be in any part of retailing it?
12020.1. Any person in this state who commercially manufactures or
causes to be commercially manufactured, or who knowingly imports into
the state for commercial sale, keeps for commercial sale, or offers
or exposes for commercial sale, any hard plastic knuckles is guilty
of a misdemeanor. As used in this section, "hard plastic knuckles"
means any device or instrument made wholly or partially of plastic
that is not a metal knuckle as defined in paragraph (7) of
subdivision (c) of Section 12020, that is worn for purposes of
offense or defense in or on the hand, and that either protects the
wearer's hand while striking a blow or increases the force of impact
from the blow or injury to the individual receiving the blow. The
plastic contained in the device may help support the hand or fist,
provide a shield to protect it, or consist of projections or studs
that would contact the individual receiving a blow.
 
My interpretation is that you can possess plastic knuckles as defined, but not offer them for sale. In contrast, if you read the entire code carefully, you'll find that you may neither possess or sell metal knuckles. Of course, your mileage may vary.

Best regards,

Argyll
 
CAlife said:
does this mean that that i can't posses a plastic knuck or that i can't be in any part of retailing it?
12020.1. Any person in this state who commercially manufactures or
causes to be commercially manufactured, or who knowingly imports into
the state for commercial sale, keeps for commercial sale, or offers
or exposes for commercial sale, any hard plastic knuckles is guilty
of a misdemeanor.
Click to expand...

Compare that to 12020a1:
Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any...metal knuckles
Click to expand...

On my reading, possessing, carrying, using (when justified), giving, and lending plastic knuckles is not prohibited.

I am not a lawyer, cop, judge, or anyone else whose opinion on legal matters is worth more than you paid for it, but I see a difference in how the codes are written, and, as far as I know, what's not prohibited is legal. It could be argued in court that carrying plastic knuckles violates the spirit of the law prohibiting metal knuckles, but in your defense you could bring up that plastic knuckles are specifically addressed in the law and manufacture is prohibited while possession is not.

Now if you're caught carrying a set of obvious plastic knuckles, I wouldn't be surprised if the cop on the street decides to arrest you for it. People get arrested for obeying the law every day. But on my reading of the law, there is nothing prohibiting carrying plastic knuckles. If MORIMOTOM is reading the law differently, I'd like to understand where, how, and why.
 
hi medusa, my interpretation was only based on the portion of the section quoted. good point regarding 'sale, manufacture.....etc'. simple possession is not addressed here, which i overlooked. i will look into it further and see if i can find a section in which possession of plastic knuckles is prohibited.

my only disagreement was your statement regarding people being arrested for obeying the law. i will concede someone arrested may interpret a law differently, or be ignorant altogether, of a law enforced by a police officer/deputy sheriff, however beyond that, an officer who arrested someone illegally (knowingly), ie for obeying a law, would be guilty of misconduct and possibly a civil rights violation.
 
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