Not pleased with Emerson

I think I personally take the F&F thing on the chin as I mod pretty much every production EKI
I have (bar the ECA knives) so the F&F is actually top totch on my knives. :p:thumbup:


Damn you ! I don't like stock EKIs, but customized EKIs are diferent cases. I have been thinking about getting some modifications done on my CQC-12, but I never found myself rich enough and patient enough. Now I'm green with envy. :D
 
The 12 is a nice knife to start with but a custom Ti clip, some carbonfiber and a reprofiled, true satin finish blade does make all the difference. :D:thumbup:
 
Interesting.

I took my knives to Iraq. I took them to Afghanistan. I indicated in previous posts here that they've seen hard service in places that many might prefer not to go, and under difficult circumstances. Never the less, if one speaks in favor of the knives which proved themselves, one is labeled a "fan boy."

Interesting, indeed.

The only one of my knives which didn't come back (and "back is a relative term: I'm still there on a regular basis) was a mini-commander which disappeared last year in Mosul. I had no trouble with any of my knives.

The truth is that I trust my knives because I've carried them and used them in places where nobody cares how they look, least of all, me. I do care very much how they perform, and they've performed admirably...well enough that they earned my trust, in places where I trust them with my life.

If you want to call that being a "fan boy," then have at it.

Nope, that's not what I'd call a fanboy's attitude. You are judging EKI by their performance, and you can prove them reliable. Your claim is reasonable and proven. :thumbup:

I am judging EKI by both their PERFORMANCE AND F&F. Performace wise, yes they are reliable. They can handle heavy duty tasks. But again, there are also many cheaper folders that can handle those tasks but still have excellent F&F. This is my concern.


Emerson's F&F is fine.

As Haze stated above, most (or all) people agree that EKI has poor F&F. I am not sure why the poster insists that is not true. Perhaps his collections of EKI don't have F&F problems like some of us do (lucky him!), or perhaps the poster has not handled other brands that have better F&F (I doubt it very much).

This topic has been discussed a couple of times in the past, but still no explanation from EKI.

why should you contact them? How else would they know ya are having problems??

Perhaps by reading this kind of thread ? I am sure this subforum exists not only to advertise new products / new self defense classes, but also to 'interact' with the end users. This is where EKI can find out what the end users have to say about their products.
 
I'm thinking about getting a new Ti lock side made because the old one feels kind of flimsy. Carbon fiber ? True satin finish ? Custom Ti clip ? You read my mind Haze. Actually I want to have a carbon fiber overlaying the locking side, so it will be in between liner lock and frame lock (imagine the Spyderco PPT). Overlaying CF will prevent the lock from overextending. And definitely carbon fiber slab on the non-locking side with larger true satin finish screws. Oh one more, portruding spine (what the heck do you call that part sandwiched between the handle slabs ?) as a glass breaker.

Perhaps, I'll even have the surface of the Ti lock bar hardened (like Sebenza).

Now that's a knife I'd be carrying everyday. :thumbup:
 
Haze don't submit to this BS. Emerson's F&F is top notch. I'll repeat this again. These are borderline folks who should be buying sub $50 knives. When they go over their budget their expectations goes through the roof. Any small imperfection, they scream bloody murder. Sorry but no one cares.

Sorry but no one cares. Emerson's F&F is fine.

Sorry but I have to comment on this. I care! Here is one of the most expensive Emerson production knives I ever bought. An elite model in fact that is a semi custom because the blade is hand ground by Ernie or at least thats what I was told. This is something you'd expect to be top shelf from every perspective. I think thats a given and while it may be so for function it goes beyond that because its a model that even Ernie is quoted as saying is one of the best knives he ever built in his write up about it. The whole air about this knife is one of elite status in production knife building.

You tell me is it small imperfections and being too picky to complain about what I found when I opened this one up? Well, I don't think so, even if it was a hundred or two hundred dollar knife but its not a $100 or $200 knife! Its a several hundred dollar knife best I can figure and for me to snag it I paid nearly $800. Yet when I contacted Ernie and EKI about it his reply to me was that it has "standard production liners" as if to indicate it is par for the course live with it Steve. While he didn't say that exactly the jist of it was that he was not interested in being bothered with it. Personally for the elite status of this knife and the gun it packaged with the thing should be flawless no excuses. It was not without flaw though. In fact, it could be argued the lock side needed replaced on this one but oh I'm just screaming bloody murder about small imperfections. I forgot.

In case those of you with your selective blindness can't see what is obvious to others I'll tell you what you see here. What you see is a CQC45 with laser burn marks, flaking metal and laser cut lines on the spine which are all plainly visible to the naked eye. Now as if that isn't bad enough on any model let alone a top shelf elite model, you can also see overhangs of the G10 scale off the liner while in other spots it is flush. Then we have a lock side liner that is not uniform in thickness around the pivot area wrapping up around the spine in front, also plainly visible here where you can see its thinner in spots than in others and that same liner even has two gaps in the liner where it meets the G10 scale.

These are gaps that go up under the scale which stood out far worse to the naked eye than my cheapo camera captured. One in the rear and one really bad one in the front that is shown quite well actually in this close up as good as I could get it. So please don't try to tell me about small imperfections being nit picky. Take the blinders off or get your glasses checked. When a knife ships this way its not 'top notch' F&F'. I took this 45 to the shop and fixed the flaws and gave it carbon fiber scales commensurate with its status before giving it to my son for his birthday gift which was why I bought it in the first place. This modification was done only after it became clear the company was not going to fix what they did not consider broken. Someone else said earlier if this makes me a fan boy then so be it. Well if this make a screamer then so be it. I don't think its nit picky to ask for fit and finish commensurate with price. I really don't.

STR
 

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What you see is a CQC45 with laser burn marks, flaking metal and laser cut lines on the spine which are all plainly visible to the naked eye. Now as if that isn't bad enough on any model let alone a top shelf elite model, you can also see overhangs of the G10 scale off the liner while in other spots it is flush. Then we have a lock side liner that is not uniform in thickness around the pivot area wrapping up around the spine in front, also plainly visible here where you can see its thinner in spots than in others and that same liner even has two gaps in the liner where it meets the G10 scale.

These are gaps that go up under the scale which stood out far worse to the naked eye than my cheapo camera captured. One in the rear and one really bad one in the front that is shown quite well actually in this close up as good as I could get it.

STR

Oh, but THAT'S what makes it hard-core.:rolleyes:
I'm so hard-core y'all that I don't need no stinking flush liners, properly engaging locks, or any of that other wimp stuff.
HARD-CORE!!!
 
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...

What you see is a CQC45 with
-laser burn marks,
-flaking metal and laser cut lines on the spine which are all plainly visible to the naked eye.
-you can also see overhangs of the G10 scale off the liner while in other spots it is flush.
-a lock side liner that is not uniform in thickness around the pivot area wrapping up around the spine in front,
-plainly visible here where you can see its thinner in spots than in others
-that same liner even has two gaps in the liner where it meets the G10 scale.

...

STR

Organized it for you.

And, like you said, we can't see any of these imperfection in your picture so I can't judge.
 
I'm thinking about getting a new Ti lock side made because the old one feels kind of flimsy. Carbon fiber ? True satin finish ? Custom Ti clip ? You read my mind Haze. Actually I want to have a carbon fiber overlaying the locking side, so it will be in between liner lock and frame lock (imagine the Spyderco PPT). Overlaying CF will prevent the lock from overextending. And definitely carbon fiber slab on the non-locking side with larger true satin finish screws. Oh one more, portruding spine (what the heck do you call that part sandwiched between the handle slabs ?) as a glass breaker.

Perhaps, I'll even have the surface of the Ti lock bar hardened (like Sebenza).

Now that's a knife I'd be carrying everyday. :thumbup:

The 12 that I carry has a carbonfiber scale and full back spacer. The clips that I make are ground/machined from one pice of titanium so they are quite rigid and actually work as a lock stop. :cool:

I need to survice my 12 as the lock is at +100% and is starting to get a bit of play so I think I'm going to try a carbide layer at the lock face. The knife has had years of good use so if it ruins the Ti lock scale then I'm not too fussed, I can make a new one any way I suppose.


I've got pics of it on here somewhere. :):thumbup:

Organized it for you.

And, like you said, we can't see any of these imperfection in your picture so I can't judge.

Well, I have seen them and have talked about this with STR before so you can take our word for it or not, it's up to you.

One more, thing please don't try and get dry with STR, he is one the most experienced people we have here on the forum and knows just what he is talking about.
 
I am judging EKI by both their PERFORMANCE AND F&F. Performace wise, yes they are reliable. They can handle heavy duty tasks. But again, there are also many cheaper folders that can handle those tasks but still have excellent F&F. This is my concern.

I'm not arguing that one shouldn't receive a product commensurate with the price. I understand where people are coming from. My first Emerson had burn marks with discoloration in the liner material, along the back of the knife, where the scales and liner had been clearly ground even on a bench grinder. It annoyed me at the time, I asked Mr. Emerson repeatedly about it on various forums he frequented, and I got an absolute 100% refusal to answer. I was annoyed.

That said, my best folder is a Chris Reeve Sebenza. It was a gift, and it's a beautiful pocket knife. I've carried it quite a bit, but it mostly stays in the safe. Not because it's not up to cutting and carrying, but it's too nice to bang up or lose. It's also got some sentimental value.

Now, an Emerson, I have no qualms about abusing, or even losing if it comes to loss. I'd rather not, and I try to take very good care of them...but I'm not worried about them getting scratched, banged, dropped, worn, wet, or otherwise being abused. They're not museum show pieces, and I don't think they're meant to be.

I think I've paid full price for one of my knives. The rest have been bought used, or bought for considerably less than retail. I've bought a number through Ebay and other such places, including classifieds in various forums. I had about half a dozen shipped to me in Iraq, where I carried some, and enjoyed the rest. So be it.

I'd be upset if one of the more expensive collector models of the Emerson line came with gaps, burn marks, or some of the other problems various posters have noted. I don't see any reason why the stock production knives can't come with more attention to detail. All the same, for my purposes, as an end-user (and not a collector...though I'll admit to a small compulsion of buying them when I can, which I suppose could be called a collection), I see the asthetics of the knife as the least important part.

Every one of my knives has locked up solidly, tight as a drum, with no play, save two. One was a CQC-15, which needed a little breaking in and a slight adjustment of the screw. The other was a CQC-14, which didn't want to stay locked open. A little pressure on the back of the blade and the liner lock would pop aside and the blade would close. This is obviously an operational concern for anybody who loves their fingers. I gave the knife a chance, gave it a few good snaps to open, and it's locked open and solid ever since. I haven't had a chance to abuse that one much, because it stays in the safe (it was too good a deal to pass up at the time, and I didn't have a CQC-14, so I grabbed it). The CQC-15 has seen all kinds of abuse, has been subject to a Krein regrind, and gets carried regularly. I absolutely love it.

I own several CQC-7's, and though it may offend some to say, I don't like the design much. Nothing against the knives: they're everything they're advertised to be, but it just doesn't do much for me. That said, I've carried one or two in my gear regularly (and lost one, unfortunately, on a trip on behalf of Uncle Sam, several years ago). The Commander, while not pretty, still serves as my favorite of all the Emerson designs, and despite Ernie Emerson's admonition to go with a serrated edge, I can't stand them, can't sharpen them to save my hide, and strongly prefer the utility of a clean-cutting plain edge Commander.

I don't fault people for wanting a nice knife for the price that's charged. The Emersons are beater knives: they're tools. They're thick, they're ground funny, they have a unique opening-assist feature, they're finished like utilitarian tools, and they're meant for some abuse. Never the less, I understand why people expect greater care in the fit and finish. I have six roll-aways of hand tools, and I expect for the sum I've paid to have flawless tools. I wouldn't accept poor fit and finish on my Mac or Snap-on tools, though I do find it regularly and put up with in on my many Craftsman tools. My snap-on's are pretty. My craftsman aren't. My craftsman tools have seen a lot of abuse in the field, however, and have been beaten and served hard lives, and I know each and every one of them by the scratches, nicks, and even the flaking plating here and there. I don't mind it; they've done what they were required to do, done it well, and some of them have served hard use for nearly 30 years. I can't ask more than that, and I expect that some of my Emersons will be in use long past that. Time shall tell.

My Emersons have been soaked, have fallen tens of thousands of feet, have been arc'd and burned, and have been bloodied. (Including my own...most recently a truly bone-headed act of snipping off the tip of my thumb while closing one, while climbing down a ladder in a tent in Iraq, last year...I'll never say they don't come sharp!). I won't be putting my knives in an art museum, but chances are that the next time I really need a knife I can trust, one or more of those same abused Emersons will be with me. Including the CQC-7...I don't like them...but I carry them anyway. I'm not even a fan of the CQC-7, just a respectful believer in them, because they work.
 
Holy cow!!!!! You guys are duking it out here. I will put my $.02 in here just once. I have been collecting Emersons for over 15 years. I have seen EKI go from having crappy fit and finish, to good, to back to crappy fit and finish over the years. Now I am referring to the production knives. What some people have not talked much about, except maybe STR, are the custom, semi-custom, and limited edition knives. I have always been a little disappointed in Ernie's fit and finish for his custom knives. Now, before anyone makes a point here, I will state that Ernie's knives are NOT supposed to be pretty. They are purpose built. For what you pay, you get a GREAT product that is made in the U.S.A., by Americans (except for his chinese line)!

Ernie and Phil Hartsfield (God Rest His Soul), were the go to guys back in the 80's and early 90's for chisel ground folders (Ernie) and fixed blade tantos and swords (Phil). If you look at Ernie's pre-tactical line, they are some of the most beautiful folders EVER made. That is a big boast, considering what some makers are doing now with CNC machines, but it is the truth. Ernie was the FIRST to work almost exclusively in titanium back in the early 80's. So, just be mindful of the fact that the man has it in him to make his knives as nice, if not nicer than Spyderco, Benchmade, or the others out there. Unfortunately, to do that, he would have to charge much more for his knives.

now, I know I am going to open a can of worms here, but here it goes: Striders are the worst fit and finish knives I have ever owned, but yet, they cost 2, 3, even 4 times as much as an Emerson. But look at what you are getting there also, a purpose built knife.

I admit, that for a MSRP of around $200, you would expect more. But guys, many of the other knife company's out there are MASS producing these things in order to get their costs down, and they are using guest designers, for the most part. Ernie designs, crafts, and produces these himself (talking about the prototypes and customs). He then turns around and turns some of his designs into production knives. Nobody does that on the scale he does, nobody.

I will say this again (look at some of my previopus posts over the years here), if there is an issue with your knife, send it in to EKI. As long as you did not get stupid with it, they will fix it.

Nough said! Continue with your discussion.
 
I have handled a few Emersons (CQC-12, HD-7, CQC-8, and CQC-13) although they don't have super slick glide opening blades if the pivot is adjusted right they can flip open with no problem at all and without any blade play whatsoever. I would describe the Emerson fit as very good.

The CQC-12 had a lock that stuck like you would not believe and it took LOTS AND LOTS of openings and closings before it broke in.

This is not a complaint to me as I would probably think it was safer when it stuck (I am not an easy unlocking enthusiast.) Now the lock is super smooth to disengage and would be a dream knife for those who value easy one hand closing although I am not one of those people I have to admit it is more enjoyable to play with. The integrity of the lock is still top notch.

The HD-7 was the same but broke in MUCH FASTER.

The CQC-13 and CQC-8 (liner locks vs the above emerson frame locks) I didn't have much time to play with since STR converted them to excellent frame locks when he still did conversions, but as far as I can tell the fit and locking on them had no problems before the conversions.

The Emersons I have handled had no blade play at all in any direction. The pivot will loosen up if you constantly open and close them and of course eventually with constant use. I suppose lock tite would fix it but the pivot is a slotted screw that is easy to adjust with about anything that would fit so when it feels loose I would just tighten it again.

I always thought Emersons looked ugly but they do have good ergonomics and a pleasant feel in the hand of a type I find unique to Emersons. I can't describe it any other way. Despite the claims of others I find Emersons to have the type of feel I like in a utility knife and that is what I would use them for.

I find Emersons to be more expensive but not excessively. I am speaking about their standard models not an $800.00 special custom that I would expect to be almost impeccable for that kind of a price.

I do think Emersons are generally good. They may not be a bargain or even the best value for the money but their style is unique and they are far from being rip offs. Worth the money I would say yes especially if you like their style and/or feel.
 
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I hope what is said as honest comments are not seen as duking it out. Emerson makes the choice as Strider does to do things the way they do. They should expect the repercussions that go with those choices. My point is not to duke it out or cause bad feelings but simply that it is possible to be a fan and a big one and still be honest about what is right in front of you standing out as obvious. For what its worth when that 45 arrived here at my place after I bought it it was just one of 21 other EKI products owned by me. Of course I gave that one to my son and he does carry it often and loves it by the way.

Are the EKI lock backs made in China now? I didn't know that. The ones I bought if you are speaking of the Hardwear line were all stamped Japan. I have one of every model and blade. Waved the big one. Not great but it works okay thanks to that raised area on the spine.

STR
 
Maybe I’m just lucky. I’ve never had a day’s grief from either my CQC-7 or the A-100.
They’re the guys I reach for most often.
 
If they would just make an emerson with a high quality autolawks I would be thrilled. Autolawks was, is, and will be a very good device a for long time to come.
 
If they would just make an emerson with a high quality autolawks I would be thrilled. Autolawks was, is, and will be a very good device a for long time to come.
- My favorite lock is the Axis Lock. It's much easier to disengage and open.
 
This is what separates Emersons to BM or CRKT.

Wont happen, different knives & companys.
 
Are the EKI lock backs made in China now? I didn't know that. The ones I bought if you are speaking of the Hardwear line were all stamped Japan.

No, they are Japan...until the new HardWear line comes out later this year - Made in USA now.
 
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