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Not so much survival Firearms, but I need a little help.
- Thread starter Fonly
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2007
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- 1,236
I am short on time right now so here it is in point form:
1. Glocks are perfectly legal here. Your instructor is a moron. Buy a glock and make him eat it.
2. I have a bunch of norinco 1911s...they are great guns, cheap. But they are EXPENSIVE to feed. Look at what .45 acp costs before you buy one. But they are very, very solid pistols. They will not let you down. I feed mine a steady diet of cast SWCs...there are not a lot of 1911s that will feed those without a hiccup! But all of mine will. They go many thousands of rounds between jams.
3. If I were you I'd have a good look at a Glock 17. They are not pretty but they do work well and 9mm +p ammo is pretty punchy.
4. Wilderness ATC is easy to get here, too. So getting something with a bit of punch doesn't hurt...on the other hand 9mm is pretty cheap compared to most of your other options.
5. Transport is easy here too...I have a long term ATT that is good for five years for everywhere from here to Winnipeg. There is not much difference in these regs from BC to Alberta, except I believe we get more leeway on our LTATTs.
6. Self defense is always legal, coast to coast to coast. If you need to use a firearm to defend your life or the lives of others, you can. If you are in your home, there is no obligation to retreat. You may defend yourself with lethal force if it can be REASONABLY CONCLUDED that that is what was necessary. Many people will tell you that in Canada, you can't defend yourself. These are the same kind of people that tell you Glocks are illegal. I have a wide range of names for these people. Ignore them. If you are really interested in knowing your legal rights, talk to a lawyer. But self defense is legal here.
7. Revolvers are COOL. .357mags will also do .38sp, which is generally pretty cheap.
If you have any specific Canada-gun questions I can probably answer them. Good for you for getting your RPAL!
Keep us posted on your choices!
1. Glocks are perfectly legal here. Your instructor is a moron. Buy a glock and make him eat it.
2. I have a bunch of norinco 1911s...they are great guns, cheap. But they are EXPENSIVE to feed. Look at what .45 acp costs before you buy one. But they are very, very solid pistols. They will not let you down. I feed mine a steady diet of cast SWCs...there are not a lot of 1911s that will feed those without a hiccup! But all of mine will. They go many thousands of rounds between jams.
3. If I were you I'd have a good look at a Glock 17. They are not pretty but they do work well and 9mm +p ammo is pretty punchy.
4. Wilderness ATC is easy to get here, too. So getting something with a bit of punch doesn't hurt...on the other hand 9mm is pretty cheap compared to most of your other options.
5. Transport is easy here too...I have a long term ATT that is good for five years for everywhere from here to Winnipeg. There is not much difference in these regs from BC to Alberta, except I believe we get more leeway on our LTATTs.
6. Self defense is always legal, coast to coast to coast. If you need to use a firearm to defend your life or the lives of others, you can. If you are in your home, there is no obligation to retreat. You may defend yourself with lethal force if it can be REASONABLY CONCLUDED that that is what was necessary. Many people will tell you that in Canada, you can't defend yourself. These are the same kind of people that tell you Glocks are illegal. I have a wide range of names for these people. Ignore them. If you are really interested in knowing your legal rights, talk to a lawyer. But self defense is legal here.
7. Revolvers are COOL. .357mags will also do .38sp, which is generally pretty cheap.
If you have any specific Canada-gun questions I can probably answer them. Good for you for getting your RPAL!
Keep us posted on your choices!
Haha, love the Avatar man, nice.:thumbup:
Thats more less what I was told when talking with local gun shops, they told me many instructors will sometimes make it out that some handguns are not avalible, but in this case I dont see a problem.
And yes, so the protection of me and my own, what you said is what I was under the impression with, Im just lucky to be doing this in alberta, its about as close to the states as I can get.
The other thing is obviously prices, thas why norico stood out to me. I wont be doing alot of target shooting, so ammo wasen't a huge deal to me, but the initial price of the gun is whats getting me the most.
If some jackass comes into my house at 3 am with a 12g or a hand gun, I will take the repercussions, better to be tried by 12 then carried by 6, or even worse my family being hurt.
I wont be doing any thing ileagel either way, but it would look better on my part if I had a handgun at regulation, and it wasn't decked out, thats why the glock models stuck out in my mind.
Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2007
- Messages
- 1,236
Thank you, I made it this afternoon and couldn't stop laughing.
Okay, here is another shameless revolver plug. The absolute best buy last year from S&W was the 627 Pro - SKU 178014. I paid $719 + s/t last spring - the same local pusher had it at $749 a week or so back. You get an N-frame 8-shot .357M with a 4" barrel (4 3/32" not including the exit of the cylinders' chambers. Isn't the Canadian requirement just >4"?). It comes with a spring loaded front orange ramp sight - changed in seconds to a HiViz, etc, without tools. It has a dished cylinder entry for moonclips - with eased charge holes for fast reloads. It also has a modicum of a trigger job for a decent DA trigger 'right out of the box'. Add that target barrel, and it's a deal. It is only $150 MSRP more than the least expensive L-frame .357M, the 620 ($120 cheaper at my pusher's price.). Of course, it shoots .38 Specials or .357Ms; plinkers or hot rounds. Both ammos are available at WallyWorld here reasonably.
Of course, for just pure fun, you can't beat a S&W 617 in .22 LR. My 4" 10-shot , the last new revolver I bought last year (9/08), is just too much fun. Good thing for S&W I didn't buy that revolver first... it really would have prevented a lot of other buys - a lot of fun! Of course, for home protection, you might have to empty it into a bad guy... might be considered undue cruelty. It might be a great defender against tree rats and ground squirrels. Of course, ammo was available reasonably at W-W - frightened buyers have kept their shelves pretty bare.
I guess if you cannot have a 4" revolver - and you want a big-bore plinker, my 6" 629 - SKU 163606 - is a great choice. It'll load and fire .44 Russians, .44 Specials, and, of course, .44 Magnums. You can reload all of them more reasonably than you can buy them, of course. You can also find 'fairly mild' loads in both .44 Special and .44 Magnum as 'Cowboy Loads', intended for SASS cowboy events. You'll appreciate the S&W .460/.500 Magnum Hogue Monogrips, $35 from S&W Accessories, as they pad the backstrap - makes shooting 'real' Magnums less painful. Whatever you load - that 6" barrel makes it easy to shoot more accurately at longer distances. I have recently installed a scope rail and mine sports a handgun scope - great hunting combo. To me, it's a plinker - the original sights will be back soon. Like my .357Ms, my .44Ms see mild loads - fun shooters. Of course, a 6" 629 is basically a SS version of the 'Dirty Harry' revolver.
Lots of other choices exist - I really like my 625JM - a 4" N-frame which loads and shoots .45 ACPs in moonclips. It is another bargain - mine is over four years old now and still fun to shoot (SKU 160936 ~$800 locally.). Here, .45 ACP ammo is plentiful - W-W's have them in 230gr FMJ (UMC-brass) for $82/250. Big & slow round, little recoil... FUN! Moonclips are reasonable (Ranch Products ~$30/100.), too. Great Zombie protection:
I like revolvers...
Stainz
Of course, for just pure fun, you can't beat a S&W 617 in .22 LR. My 4" 10-shot , the last new revolver I bought last year (9/08), is just too much fun. Good thing for S&W I didn't buy that revolver first... it really would have prevented a lot of other buys - a lot of fun! Of course, for home protection, you might have to empty it into a bad guy... might be considered undue cruelty. It might be a great defender against tree rats and ground squirrels. Of course, ammo was available reasonably at W-W - frightened buyers have kept their shelves pretty bare.
I guess if you cannot have a 4" revolver - and you want a big-bore plinker, my 6" 629 - SKU 163606 - is a great choice. It'll load and fire .44 Russians, .44 Specials, and, of course, .44 Magnums. You can reload all of them more reasonably than you can buy them, of course. You can also find 'fairly mild' loads in both .44 Special and .44 Magnum as 'Cowboy Loads', intended for SASS cowboy events. You'll appreciate the S&W .460/.500 Magnum Hogue Monogrips, $35 from S&W Accessories, as they pad the backstrap - makes shooting 'real' Magnums less painful. Whatever you load - that 6" barrel makes it easy to shoot more accurately at longer distances. I have recently installed a scope rail and mine sports a handgun scope - great hunting combo. To me, it's a plinker - the original sights will be back soon. Like my .357Ms, my .44Ms see mild loads - fun shooters. Of course, a 6" 629 is basically a SS version of the 'Dirty Harry' revolver.
Lots of other choices exist - I really like my 625JM - a 4" N-frame which loads and shoots .45 ACPs in moonclips. It is another bargain - mine is over four years old now and still fun to shoot (SKU 160936 ~$800 locally.). Here, .45 ACP ammo is plentiful - W-W's have them in 230gr FMJ (UMC-brass) for $82/250. Big & slow round, little recoil... FUN! Moonclips are reasonable (Ranch Products ~$30/100.), too. Great Zombie protection:
I like revolvers...
Stainz
Glocks are totally legal in Canada as long as they have barrels over 105mm.
A buddy of mine has been shooting his Glock 17 for years, great gun!
he bought it before the magazine limitation law.
When the law came in he had to get all his magazines converted to 10 rounders.
Right now i don't own a lot of handguns, just a S&W 617, a Browning High Power (also limited to 10 rounds) and an old Remington Rand 1911A1 (45 ACP).
Pairing similar guns, one in 22 LR and one in a centerfire calibre is a good idea.
If i was starting over again for revolvers i'd get 6 inch barrelled S&W 617 22 L.R double action and a S&W 686 DA in .357 (or maybe a S&W DA 629 in 44 mag.)
Or if one prefers single actions a Ruger Convertible Single Six (.22 LR and 22 Mag) and a Ruger Convertible Blackhawk (.357 and 9mm) would be good.
For semiautos i'd get a good .22, a Ruger Mark III or Browning Buckmark.
Also a 1911A1 (maybe a commander) in 9mm or 45 Acp.
IMO nowadays Its kinda pointless getting a double column magazine gun when you have a 10 round limitation.
This is especially true if you have small or medium sized hands, as the extra grip girth and longer trigger reach of some DA's can be a real pain.
If you really want a DA semi see if you can try various models out at a range to check out how you like the trigger pull and ergonomics.
When i started shooting back in the early 90's before i owned any handguns i really wanted the Beretta 92f.
Then i got to fire one and realized the reach for the DA trigger was longer than i personally found to be comfortable.
But the SA trigger on the Browning suits me fine and i'm comfortable with the Glock's safe-action type trigger.
The Norinco clones of the 1911A1's and the Sig-Sauers look good and are fairly inexpensive.
Are you a lefty ?
The controls of Sigs and the Sig clones are geared toward right handers.
However you can get aftermarket ambidextrous controls for the 1911A1's.
Another thing to think about is the type of ammo you will shoot.
I primarily shoot hardball in centerfire semiautos so there are no feeding problems.
But if you are planning on shooting hollowpoints some of the older SA semi designs can have feeding problems.
Yeah i know a good gunsmith can tweak the older designs but any gunsmithing entails getting extra permits to transport the gun to and from the gunsmith.
So if you really want to shoot hollowpoints try to get something you find comfortable to shoot and that is reliable with that ammo straight out of the box.
A buddy of mine has been shooting his Glock 17 for years, great gun!
he bought it before the magazine limitation law.
When the law came in he had to get all his magazines converted to 10 rounders.
Right now i don't own a lot of handguns, just a S&W 617, a Browning High Power (also limited to 10 rounds) and an old Remington Rand 1911A1 (45 ACP).
Pairing similar guns, one in 22 LR and one in a centerfire calibre is a good idea.
If i was starting over again for revolvers i'd get 6 inch barrelled S&W 617 22 L.R double action and a S&W 686 DA in .357 (or maybe a S&W DA 629 in 44 mag.)
Or if one prefers single actions a Ruger Convertible Single Six (.22 LR and 22 Mag) and a Ruger Convertible Blackhawk (.357 and 9mm) would be good.
For semiautos i'd get a good .22, a Ruger Mark III or Browning Buckmark.
Also a 1911A1 (maybe a commander) in 9mm or 45 Acp.
IMO nowadays Its kinda pointless getting a double column magazine gun when you have a 10 round limitation.
This is especially true if you have small or medium sized hands, as the extra grip girth and longer trigger reach of some DA's can be a real pain.
If you really want a DA semi see if you can try various models out at a range to check out how you like the trigger pull and ergonomics.
When i started shooting back in the early 90's before i owned any handguns i really wanted the Beretta 92f.
Then i got to fire one and realized the reach for the DA trigger was longer than i personally found to be comfortable.
But the SA trigger on the Browning suits me fine and i'm comfortable with the Glock's safe-action type trigger.
The Norinco clones of the 1911A1's and the Sig-Sauers look good and are fairly inexpensive.
Are you a lefty ?
The controls of Sigs and the Sig clones are geared toward right handers.
However you can get aftermarket ambidextrous controls for the 1911A1's.
Another thing to think about is the type of ammo you will shoot.
I primarily shoot hardball in centerfire semiautos so there are no feeding problems.
But if you are planning on shooting hollowpoints some of the older SA semi designs can have feeding problems.
Yeah i know a good gunsmith can tweak the older designs but any gunsmithing entails getting extra permits to transport the gun to and from the gunsmith.
So if you really want to shoot hollowpoints try to get something you find comfortable to shoot and that is reliable with that ammo straight out of the box.
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Gorgeous wheelguns Stainz!!! I am particularly fond of that 627 pro. Good stuff!!
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- Jan 28, 2007
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Lots of good ideas in this post but I thought I would just point out that out West this is not the case...you get one permit for all your stuff that is good for anywhere in your province (or other Western provinces in the case of the BC permit) that allows you to take it to whatever location you want, provided it's legal to be going there with a gun (ie your boss's house is not an acceptable destination! but any range, border, gunsmith within two thousand miles would be fine)
But regardless I do not like to advise a gun that needs tweaking before it will perform. I like out of the box functional. So although the transport thing is not an issue out here I still agree with you although I have not heard very good things about the Nork clones of the Sigs.
My Nork 1911s all feed HPs with no trouble. I have even managed to get one to swallow cast WC bullets. But mostly I shoot cast SWCs...still those are harder feeding than most HPs and all my norks ate them with no tweaking.
Glad to hear that as i am hoping to move to the Vancouver area sometime in the next 12 months or so!
Unfortunately our idiot politicians made the legal minimum just a few milimeters OVER 4 inches. So all 4 inchers and under are now prohibited.
Prohibited class means that you get to keep your prohibited gun but can't sell it except to others who already own prohibited weapons in that class. Also no new 4 inchers can be imported into Canada.
Yeah, I have to call the CFO in edmonton today, but I dont think there is going to be a problem getting a Wilderness carry, thats one of the big things im looking into, range work and gunsmiting are behind that, but I would still like try out the norico models.
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- Jan 27, 2007
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I'm going to say GLOCK & if not a GLOCK then a M1911-A1 GI model :thumbup: Cheap & you can build the 1911 into anything you want 
Check out the Rock Island Armory M1911-A1 :thumbup: All mine needed was to be polished & buffed & now it shoots as good a my Brothers Kimber (just my groups aren't as tight
)
Check out the Rock Island Armory M1911-A1 :thumbup: All mine needed was to be polished & buffed & now it shoots as good a my Brothers Kimber (just my groups aren't as tight
)I'll bet the Canadian govt's length limit is just the barrel, ie, no f/c, muzzle, or exit bore on the cylinder's included, either. A 5" with a built-in comp might have problems!
Well, I knew Alabama was good for something... firearms! Actually, the CCW laws are easier, too. A friend - still a Canadian (He has dependent children in Canada.), although he has remarried an American this time - legally bought a .45 S&W from a local store a couple years ago. It took a couple of days for the Fed #4473 form to be 'approved' - but he got the gun. He petitioned his county's attorney/sheriff's office - and got a CCL, too!
Our current county sheriff won his election on a great plank - he promised to reduce the annual CCL fee from $20 to $7.50... which he did. Great sheriff, too. Alabama isn't a bad place to be... and, it has an extra 'A' in it's spelling, when compared to Canada, eh?
Okay - consider that 6" 629 (SKU 163606). Great plinker with .44 Russians and Specials - and sporting proper wood grips. Those .500 Magnum Hogues help the real Magnum recoil. A scope helps at distance - remove the rear sight (one screw) and install the scope rail, Weigand in my case, and the screws mount via the pre-drilled/tapped holes. The Weaver H2 2x28mm scope is all I need. fact is, I like the iron sights better - the revolver is a 'natural' pointer without the scope.
Stainz
Well, I knew Alabama was good for something... firearms! Actually, the CCW laws are easier, too. A friend - still a Canadian (He has dependent children in Canada.), although he has remarried an American this time - legally bought a .45 S&W from a local store a couple years ago. It took a couple of days for the Fed #4473 form to be 'approved' - but he got the gun. He petitioned his county's attorney/sheriff's office - and got a CCL, too!
Our current county sheriff won his election on a great plank - he promised to reduce the annual CCL fee from $20 to $7.50... which he did. Great sheriff, too. Alabama isn't a bad place to be... and, it has an extra 'A' in it's spelling, when compared to Canada, eh?
Okay - consider that 6" 629 (SKU 163606). Great plinker with .44 Russians and Specials - and sporting proper wood grips. Those .500 Magnum Hogues help the real Magnum recoil. A scope helps at distance - remove the rear sight (one screw) and install the scope rail, Weigand in my case, and the screws mount via the pre-drilled/tapped holes. The Weaver H2 2x28mm scope is all I need. fact is, I like the iron sights better - the revolver is a 'natural' pointer without the scope.
Stainz
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- Jan 28, 2007
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As far as barrel length, if the comp is built in and can't be removed, and the whole thing forms a seamless tube from the time of manufacture, then no, it's part of the barrel. If it's a flash hider or muzzle brake that was put on afterward - even welded - then no, it's not part of the barrel length.
Gun laws...unfailingly, unflinchingly, unerringly stupid...everywhere.
Gun laws...unfailingly, unflinchingly, unerringly stupid...everywhere.
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- Nov 10, 2005
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- 2,983
Some worse than others.....
One thing about the 627 8-shot .357 is, you grab it, you got it. No "dang it, I forgot the magazines!"
It allows single action shooting, as well as DA shooting and can fire .38 specials along side the magnums.
Hard to beat for your situation.
.
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- Jan 28, 2007
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And yet all worse than I can grasp for some reason...
I agree about the revolvers...revolvers are cool and with speedloaders some guys get pretty fast. And the ability to shoot cheapo .38s and max loads of H110 behind .357s out of the same gun is awesome.