Not the ordinary "best lock" question: gettin' dirty!

FlaMtnBkr said:
I'm also curious why a framelock is going to automatically get wedged in the open position? I have had a couple fail and they do so by the lock walking to the unlocked position and closing. I don't see a reason why a framelock only will 'fail' to the locked open position?
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It wont only fail to the locked position. What you experienced might be poor lockup design where a few things can factor in. The engagement surface of the lock, the lock face (of the blade) angle (I dont have the book with me but Bob Terzula explains in detail in his book) I believe anything less then 8* will make a lock slip and anything above 10* will make it jam or slip (I am under correction until I can reference it) but poor lock design and execution will result a framlock to slip of the engagement area as you described. (though Bob Terzula discuss liner locks makers apply the same principals to Framelocks). These are some factors, but there are many others, if possible get BT's book and have a read. It is a great book to understand liner and framelocks better.

The advantage of a Framelock is that if you grip a well designed and executed framelock the lockup will increase and the force of your hand behind the locking frame itself can prevent accidental slippage off the engagement surface as you described. A well designed framelock also tends to 'bounch back' to its original lockup engagement if the lockup is increased through hand pressure. Or that has been my experience with ZT, CRK. (I own a CRK and only plaid with a ZT, but both well designed framelocks IMO)
 
marthinus said:
I have to ask, did the Manix 2 keep on engaging after it had some crud in it?
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Yes it did, with no problems.

For those of you recommending the framelock I have to ask if you've given any thought to the abrasive nature of mud and dirt on the engagement surfaces? I guess I didn't do a very good job in the OP conveying my concern for wear to the mechanism over time. Is the framelock still the consensus choice for resisting wear due to dirt in the mechanism?
 
I agree with the small FB suggestions. It's really pretty surprising how much use you can get out of even a small FB with no worries about locks, blade centering, pivot adjustments, or any of that. Some very useful FBs are even smaller overall than many popular folders when they're closed and there are several very nice pocket sheaths as well as neck sheaths on the market.
 
elkins45 said:
Yes it did, with no problems.

For those of you recommending the framelock I have to ask if you've given any thought to the abrasive nature of mud and dirt on the engagement surfaces? I guess I didn't do a very good job in the OP conveying my concern for wear to the mechanism over time. Is the framelock still the consensus choice for resisting wear due to dirt in the mechanism?
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If you want one that will resist wear from continued use, good luck. My work knives are constantly getting filthy with river silt and the general gunk that covers the banks, from my experience just about any traditional lock wears out fairly quickly, liner locks usually have the shortest life, back locks are second worst, and the only ones that have held up very well are a steel frame lock kershaw, an axis lock 527, and so far my manix 2. Frame locks are nice because your hand can be enough to keep the blade locked open, even if the engagement surface is slick from mud.
 
I wonder with a caged ball lock like the Manix 2 if it can be rehabbed when excessively worn just by installing a slightly oversized ball to take up the tolerance? Sounds like a question for the Spyderco forum!
 
I doubt you will get much wear on the hardened steel parts from short term exposure to some sand. I think it would take 10s of thousands of cycles to wear the steel enough to develop play in the lock. I also don't think there are small enough increments in stock ball bearing sizes to find a small enough jump in size but that is speculation. Something else to consider is the ball bearing rotates so any wear to the ball will be spread over the whole surface as it moves around. I think the most wear will be a groove that gets worn into the tang and back spacer and again, that is going to take a long time if relatively soft sand is the abrasive against hardened steel. Basically I don't think it is an issue and I also think Spyderco would give you a new one if you were able to wear one out.

With other designs like the AXIS lock you can put in an over sized stop pin if you were able to put significant wear on the lock but I don't think it would be an issue with that design either. The only designs I think it could be a problem are locks that are known to wear relatively fast like frame and liner locks. These work by hardened pieces engaging each other which will cause more wear than some sand. Also, any force on the blade is transfered to the lock interface which can peen the lock face and cause deformation which would cause the lock to engage 'deeper' or in other words more worn out. I'm not a fan of liner and frame locks and the rate which they wear out is just one of the.reasons why.
 
blade-steel grade stainless round stock + sand paper + drill press = oversized stop pin :D

Sure makes even liner locks more practical for harder use once you get the hang of it
 
A properly made frame lock with good materials such as titanium and or good steel on the handle side plus good blade steel (tang), and you have no problems for probably your life time, depending on use.

Titanium is a very abrasion resistant material things like mud, soil, sand, etc. are not going to do it any real harm, in regards to the amount of surface area on a lock bar face, ditto goes for tang, good steel is also very wear resistant and is not going to be phased by the type and or size & volume of materials that are going to get into the area of tang and lock bar face engagement.

Think about it, most custom makers and production companies have already answered your question, most if not all of their "hard use" knives are titanium frame locks. With as nit picky as knife nutz and people in general are these days and all the warranty issues they have to deal with already, their going to use the best materials and design for their "hard use" knives as possible to avoid constant warranty issues and losing money.

If their was something better it would be the material and set up/design of choice, but their isn't because theres not. One day it will come but right now titanium frame locks are our best bet, their our generation light saber so to speak.
 
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