Notice!!!! sharpening is not an art, its a mechanical skill.

Fred.Rowe

Fred.Rowe

Joined
May 2, 2004
Messages
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What is the effect when you tell someone looking to learn the mechanical skills for sharpening a knife blade that its and "art" ? I see many post on here from people wanting to learn how to do this task. I see a lot of hero worship directed at those who have acquired the needed skills to sharpen a knife blade. Notice I said skills required and not learning an art. Many people don't see themselves as artist in any form and when they are told it takes the skills of an artist to put a pointed edge on a piece of steel, they feel there is no hope that they will ever reach such lofty goals.

Sharpening is not an art! Anyone can learn to sharpen! Don't believe it takes the talent of an artist to do this, for it does not.

I can teach any human being walking the face of the earth to sharpen knives in 20 minutes, its not rocket science, its only acquired knowledge. You can make it as hard and complicated as you wish, but there is no need to do so. Some just like to spend their days running an edge across a stone's surface.

This is not a put down of all the people who can sharpen a blade, but please be realistic in how you portray what it takes to do this. You do the person wanting to learn to sharpen "a disservice" if you willingly make them believe it takes the skills of an artist to accomplish. It does not.



I trained for 16 years in a martial "art" and learned to drive my hand completely through a full size watermelon. I can assure you it was not an art but just a skill learned by repetition. We pass out a lot of 10's in the US when we should be passing out a lot more 5's.

Just my 2cents, Fred

 
I have not heard sharpening called an art by very many people, but it sure feels like work sometimes.
 
I contest that it's a bit of a blurry line. It could be argued that applying paint to a canvas is a mechanical skill as well, but that's "art" in most people's eyes.

It could also be argued that there is some degree of "art" to free-hand sharpening. Without mechanical guides to keep the edge angle set, regardless of method (stones, rods, belt, strop, etc.), there is a certain degree of artisanal skill involved that some people will never truly master.

Either way, does it really matter enough to get worked up over? Don't sweat the small stuff man! :thumbup:
 
Because this is basically about me and the posts in this thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...t-happen-to-get-one-REALLY-right-(Sharpening) So Fred let me know how you really feel.

My perspective is that freehand sharpening is an art, you are creating something from nothing in many cases and you must envision the outcome. Being a hand operation leaves you at the mercy of your body and how good you are at any one time, to believe you are perfect 100% of the time is... well, I don't even know what to say.

So Fred,

If you don't like my views don't read my posts.
 
Fred is absolutely correct. Freehand sharpening is simply an acquired skill that anyone can learn- unless they have some serious disability. It's certainly not "art."
Simply grinding 2 planes to an apex is all that is really involved.
 
It's a skill yes but when it goes beyond what most people need its art.

No one needs a $700 dollar knife either. Why is it $700? Art.

So in the end it's both.

Some live to sharpen some sharpen to live.

No need to tear down those that are more passionate about sharpening.

It doesn't do any disservice to call it an art for some.
 
Agreed, Bill.
There is information put forth here that I cannot agree with. But so what.
I'll keep putting forth what I've found to be correct. Freehand sharpening may not be easy but it is a simple procedure that can be done with 2 stones. DM
 
Jason B. said:
Because this is basically about me and the posts in this thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...t-happen-to-get-one-REALLY-right-(Sharpening) So Fred let me know how you really feel.

My perspective is that freehand sharpening is an art, you are creating something from nothing in many cases and you must envision the outcome. Being a hand operation leaves you at the mercy of your body and how good you are at any one time, to believe you are perfect 100% of the time is... well, I don't even know what to say.

So Fred,

If you don't like my views don't read my posts.
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Its not about you, don't have such illusions. Its a blanket statement and a true one. Its for people who get on here and think, by reading some of the post, that sharpening is more difficult than it actually is. As Bill says, your intersecting two planes and making the apex as refined as needed. All of us can do that and we don't need a thousand dollars worth of equipment nor years of experience. For many its that they have been embarrassed to ask someone who has the skills thinking they might be thought of as unqualified to learn. I've spent a lifetime as a teacher, most of the time pro bono publico, for the public good and I love seeing success in people. One success leads to another success. Life just works that way. There is nothing wrong with taking pride in one's accomplishments but to place those on a pedestal is not of any advantage to anyone other than the one with the skills.

You would have been better served without the original post. My dog Tipper gives me all the attention I need to get me through the day.

Take the time to share your skills with others, it is quite rewarding.

Regards, Fred
 
Bill DeShivs said:
Fred is absolutely correct. Freehand sharpening is simply an acquired skill that anyone can learn- unless they have some serious disability. It's certainly not "art."
Simply grinding 2 planes to an apex is all that is really involved.
Click to expand...

Painting is a skill.
The resulting painting is (or at least can be) art
 
fvdk said:
Painting is a skill.
The resulting painting is (or at least can be) art
Click to expand...
House painting is a skill. Painting a masterpiece is art.

Playing a musical instrument is a skill. Envoking an emotional response is art.

The way I sharpen is a skill. The way you masters sharpen is art. ;)


Hmmm... if sharpening is just a mechanical process, simply grinding 2 planes to an apex, why don't manufacturers use machines to sharpen?
 
There are several sides to this "argument".

One the one hand, simple bevels on basic blade shapes *can* be sharpened pretty easily with fairly basic equipment. With powered equipment in particular, this seems much easier (since it's faster than by hand). Burr removal can be problematic though, unless you have a buffing wheel, or something else that's essentially guaranteed to remove the burr and not create another one. So yes, this is mostly something that can be taught and learned and is "no big deal". Everyone who works at the sharpening station at a knife manufacturing plant can do it.

But that's not all sharpening is about. Sharpening can also involve matching the finish to the intended use of the blade. Trying to use the correct abrasive to achieve a finish that cuts what needs to be cut and keeps that edge for as long as possible. This can require a great deal of experience and experimentation to get right. Really good sharpeners do this as a matter of course. This is not simple. This is not formulaic.

[continued in next post]
 
Going further, some types of sharpening start to dip into knife making territory. For example, repairing damaged edges. When you have to create new bevels from scratch (or close to it) there are estimation skills involved and successive refinement... much like grinding in a blade shape to start with. This is harder than simple sharpening. Repairing broken tips, chips, etc all involve figuring out the best compromise in how to grind to get a blade that works well and looks good without over grinding and taking off too much metal.

Japanese blades can require very specialized techniques. A yanagiba has a very precise and unusual bevel geometry that can be messed up rather easily. Knowing what to do is important. But there have to be judgement calls in this process also. How much to flatten the back side, which is concave to start with... and has a tiny microbevel on it in *most* cases. This is not simple. [Continued in next post]
 
What about single bevel traditional Japanese blades? The sharpening technique isn't anything super special like a yanagiba. But as part of sharpening, you grind the "blade road" back towards the spine. You're essentially regrinding the large beveled area of the blade each time. Shortening the blade from spine to edge. Shortening the blade from heel to point. Only a little each time, but you're regrinding it. Your job is to maintain as close to the original blade shape as possible, while keeping it thin enough to be effective. This requires knife making type skills in estimation and successive refinement. This is not a rote process like simple sharpening.

I could go on with more examples, but I'll stop here.

In conclusion, it is my opinion that YES nearly anyone can learn basic freehand sharpening. But more advanced sharpening is clearly harder and DEFINITELY a craft. It's almost knife making, but not quite. There's a reason that Japanese polishers do only one job: Polishing and sharpening blades. It's a craft.

Brian.
 
TripleT said:
No one can tell another what art is or is not.
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This ^

At its core, all art is repetitive excellence. This leads to the ability to express oneself through a given undertaking, rather than just concentrating on performing a task. It could be anything from sweeping the floor to calligraphy to first aid.
 
If we set the bar to low when considering what art is, where does that place Bach or Beethoven, Da Vinci? I remember when the Olympic judges began giving out 9.95's for most anything where the person ended up on their feet which made the great performances seem mediocre when they received a 10.

Triple T, why do you say that?

Fred
 
I always say that sharpening is both an art and a science, meaning it takes both a basic understanding of the sharpening process and the behavior of metals (science) and the skill to put that learning to practice in a highly effective way that requires practice (art) -- lots of practice for some, much less for those with natural talent.
 
One of the meanings of "art" is skill, so sharpening is "art", just like making bread is an art, but we don't usually call it "art"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/art said:
skill acquired by experience, study, or observation <the art of making friends>
an occupation requiring knowledge or skill <the art of organ building>
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https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/art said:
Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation.
Click to expand...

it doesn't take a lot of observation or study or experience
to learn to sharpen
to paper slicing level
even scrape shaving level
its a fairly easy skill to obtain with the right training/information
  • if you can put food in your mouth with a spoon you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can slice a piece of paper with a sharp knife you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can use hand pumped sprayer you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can use open a door by grasping a door handle you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can use a toothbrush you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you have fine motor skill of basic penmanship you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can draw within the lines you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can use a pencil you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can use a pen you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can use a crayon you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can shave your face you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can shave your legs you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can tie your shoes you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can cut scissors you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can use scissors you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can make precise cuts with scissors you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can knit you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can make pizza you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can paint nails with nailpolish you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can stack cups you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can drink a cup of coffee you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can drink a cup of tea you can learn to sharpen a knife
  • if you can eat hot soup you can learn to sharpen a knife
 
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