Notice to members (please read)

I gave my son a Gerber "easy-out" to carry at college (a large upstate NY campus). He was witness to an altercation on campus when campus security showed up. He had nothing to do with the altercation, but was just "there". He was hassled by campus security becuase they noticed the clip on his knife and asked, "What is that?" The officer examined the knife and was going to confiscate it. My son explaned that he is a forestry student and they need a knife, and are allowed to use a knife, for cutting into bark for ID purposes etc. etc. The officer amazingly gave the knife back and told my son to carry it in a less obvious manner.

I have 4 observations:

1) The officer showed common sense to return the knife. Although, if my son was not in Forestry, he may have done otherwise.

2) KIDS ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES ARE NOT ALLOWED TO CARRY A KNIFE. They are expected to be basiclly defenseless.

3) I instructed my son to continue to carry, but more discreetly, as suggested by the officer.

4) I am glad I DO NOT have a DAUGHTER in college, although I have one that may attend in about 5 years. SCARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone have thoughts, advise, etc. etc.?

"Walk softly and carry a big stick"...TR

I'm assuming your daughter is around 13?
Enroll her in a martial arts/self-defense class. She may protest and moan, she may not be the star of the class, but, SHE WILL LEARN something, if at the very least a partial imperceptible attitude adjustment.
Consider it an investment in her future/life insurance and anything she learns is well worth the money. If she takes to it and enjoys it, so much the better. But the fact is that she will get no comparable training in school or elsewhere.
Gwinnydapooh, I think we agree. There are vast problems not getting fixed. You are utterly correct that each parent's values matter, and at the same time no two are likley to be the same. I'm pretty well convinced that while we may continue to publicly fund education, the schools must compete for the privilage of teaching our kids. We don't have one knife shop, one grocery store, or one car lot and it is the competition that produces high quality and lots of it. I send my kids to private school but have to pay for a public school I choose not use. Let's privatize it and have everyone shop. The schools would respond like crazy. I'll bet most parents could find a school that suited them and their kid's needs.

Your observation that the Constitution is recited but we're not allowed it's protection, is accurate. I don't know how to fix that. Working in the schools is a tough job. My wife taught school for some time and has packed it up to run her own business. She claims it's easier and I think she's right.
Gwinny: About the whole thing about risking her career, It wouldn't happen. No where in the book of rules at my school does it mention round plastic tubes with brass butts being illegal. Because thats all they were. Unless someone swallowed one they weren't going to do any harm to anyone.

BTW, personally I think it is the teachers. I'm not complaining about them actually enforcing the bad rules. They have a job to do. But no where in they're job description are they told to brainwash little children about how knives and guns are evil. And trust me, if you are told something enough it will forever affect you for life. Me for example, back when I was a little child my mom always told me that you will get killed in a car accident if you didn't put on your seatbelt. Now, 11 years later I can hardely even stand being in a driving car without having a seatbelt on.

Another good question that needs to be brought up is how to fix the problems. My humble opinion would be to just use the same cheap fact of life that Liberials have cashed in on for years. "One person can ruin in for everyone" Of course that one person would be us and we wouldn't really be ruining anything. But the pricipal is still the same. Just have a nice calm talk with the Admistrator and as nice as humanly possible tell him "My kid is going to carry a pocket knife to school and if you do anything to change that there will be hell to pay" And when something happens to your son you can hire a lawyer and sue them. Then they would have to change the rules.

Thats my $.02


PS- I've put several thoughts together on this post, so if anything just doesn't make sense than i would love to explain it.
I guess the important point in carrying a knife for possible defensive purposes is, if necessary, the willingness to actually USE it. Even if properly armed, if a person is either not trained to use a blade (or any other potential weapon), or there is hesitation, that weapon could be taken away and used against the individual. Someday I would like to be married, and if it's fate, to have children as well. I would definitely want them to be aware at all times. I can't count the times I've left a mall to return to my car, walking not too far away from a lone male or female, when I realize that if I were a mugger (or rapist), I could have easily done my dirty deed and gotten away with it, because they were totally unaware of me even being there in the parking lot/garage. My mother says I'm paranoid, but I've had a few experiences in the past that have taught me the importance of constant awareness. I don't think it's paranoid. That's like saying you shouldn't drive carefully because nothing will happen if you're careless anyway!(unfortunately a lot of drivers here in CA do have that mindset!). Sometimes it helps to observe others in public places and put yourself in the mindset of a predator. Doing so helps teach me to spot lack of awareness on my part (we all have out moments). Just my 2 cents worth Jim
I went to a private, non-government funded, "Christian" School. When I moved in to the Campus Married Apartments I was told that the Campus Administration wanted students leave their handguns and longarms in the Campus Security Office. I told them that I would NOT leave them in the office to which they agreed stating that I mustn't carry them on campus unless I was leaving to go hunting, to the range, etc. I told them that I would agree to their conditions if they would sign a statement that they were responsible for my family's safety 24/7. Of course they declined. We ended up getting along pretty well. Especially after I caught an armed thief breaking into cars on campus (Yes, I had my .357 on me!), and stopped several other burglars and vandals on campus. They are de facto taking your safety into their hands if they deny you the right to carry a weapon (ANY weapon) for defense. If you are mugged, robbed, beated, raped, etc., on their property, sue them. As litigious as our society has become, I say fight back with lawsuits.
Adam, sounds like more stupid school policies. I don't know how students get through the day. I remember one time after lunch my senior year, a friend had a fired LAWs rocket tube that he was going to use in for something in a class. I walked down a very crowded hallway with it fully extended on my shoulder (and a very large grin on my face). One teacher saw me with it and freaked out (by the expression on his face I thought he was going to die of fright) but as soon as he realized it was empty, walked on about his business without saying a word.
Then there was the time a friend and I loaned about 10 gun magazines to a teacher who was interested in buying a handgun for protection and general shooting. As I reacall we talked him into getting a SIG P220. Try that in today's schools!
As far as a solution for carrying on campus, try some more inconspicuous items. A key chain ASP P9, or the ASP defender OC device works pretty well. As far as knives go, either remove the shiny pocket clips and carry in pocket or get black ones only. I also read a great post once (forgot who) about carrying a MAG Lite everywhere the person went. In a pinch it works as a great impact weapon.

Phillip: Your right, alot of the problem is the terrable school policies. And the Mag Light probably wouldn't work for me. It would probably fall under the boundries of a Baton like weapon. IMO the most weapon I'll ever be able to legally carry to school is ballpoint pen.

I find it a bit disheartening that the thread Christian started about awakening common sense concerning self-defense and being alert has turned into a quibble about school policies.

NBC news had a story on the other night that stated over 38,000 ADULTS have disappeared under the suspicion of foul play in the last 2 yrs, and most were women.

I don't give a rat's ass what the "rules" are...I know what is the best for me and my baby. Regardless of what the schools and politicos say...none of that means squat when you, your family, your friends are accosted. The rules are of no material consequence if you/they are injured or dead and pathetic little comfort to the surviving family and loved ones.


Your right this was about awakening common sense concerning self defense. I guess I could be blamed for bringing up schools by stating my daughter took their sheepish point of view to heart. I was given the same BS when I went through the public school system in the 1960’s but it somehow didn’t stick. Maybe because as soon as I left the classroom I was confronted with the reality of surviving in a urban environment.

That said I think the important issue here is how to make a loved one safer in today’s world, when they think nothing can happen to them. My daughter’s public school years are over, She’s now a sophomore in college. Damage done, my fault.

I’d also like to apologize for the rant of my last post, living in New Jersey, in an affluent community, means being surrounded by sheeple. It is more fantasy then this Knife & Gun lover sometimes can take. I think if most of the members here could experience what I have here for a few minutes, You’d agree.


My complaint and veiled chastisment was by no means directed at you whatsoever. You merely made a rhetorical comment consistent with your justified confusion of how your daughter views things.
It was directed to those who changed the topic to rant about their own agendas without even attempting to remain on topic. I'm sorry if my comment has caused you any discomfort. Please accept my sincere apologies.
Take care, DC
DC, no problem, we’re still Pals,
I was aware of the sideways trend the thread was taking, and of my bringing up schools first. I was also aware of the ranting stupidity of my earlier post about my townsfolk. I try to post intelligently, but that time I missed.
LD: I guess the person who is really responcible for this becoming the tread it is is me. Sorry, its hard for me to not trash on the school system. But I guess that not really an excuse. So if I PO'ed anyone who actually like the school policies and is sober all at the same time, sorry.

Well, since I opened this kettle of fish, I think an update is called for.
Another body was found about 20 milesfrom where the burnt carwas found. As of Fri. 26March99, it has been positively ID'd as Julie Sund, daughter of Carol, whose body was found in the trunk of the burned out car along with a then unID'd body- that one has been, according to the FBI, tentatively ID'd (90% probability) as Silvina Pelloso(sp), their family friend.
The families worst fears are now a harsh reality. I cannot say how sorry I am for them- I have never had to go through something so horrific myself.
Please, to all here; use your wits, be aware of your surroundings, and never give the BG's what the want- YOU. IMHO, complying with them (in a case like this, to go with them) is suicide. Run. scream, fight if necessary- just get the hell outta there. Better one should escape than all dissapear, only to be found in a less than living state later. The one that got away would than be able to call for help, at the very least.
Sorry about that- rant mode off.
This whole thing has got me very angry at the state of fear this has awakened in me, and the State for making us like sheep for the wolves.
Have a nice day, and again- sorry for the rant.

Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it.

[This message has been edited by Christian (edited 29 March 1999).]
Mr. Sund was interviewed on the Today show this morning. Turns out that daughter Julie (one of the murdered) was active in a support/awareness group that was started due to the disappearance (14 months!) of a female friend of hers.

I'll say it again folks...SCREW THE RULES! Be alert and learn how to defend yourselves. The State cares one whit if you are murdered or injured...your value in such a situation is merely political mileage gained by the gun-grabbing anti-knife, pro-docility California that means EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE ELITIST BLOODSUCKERS!!!
I recently bought my girlfriend another Gigand knife. Believe it or not, I told her to find whatever she liked and I would get it for her. Well, she picked a Gigand Stallion. She really likes her Gigand's huh? Next, she's getting a Mini-Stryker. I've decited that I can live with 4 BM's while I try to gain her interest and her inventory in knives. The good thing about the Stallion is it comes with a damn good pouch to put it in rather than a pocket clip. Therefore she can carry it in her back pocket unnoticed, while at the same time (outside of school) she also carrys her Spectrum. Pretty good for someone who wouldn't even look or touch any of my new knifes when I brought them home from a knife show just 3 weeks ago. Another thing I enjoy about knives is cleaning them. I like to do so just as much as I like to carry or use. Well, last night my girlfriend actually took an interest in that as well. I even bought her, her own terry cloth rag from O'reily's and a large can of WD40. VICTORY!!! -AR
DC: I agree with you 200 percent! The State works its a** off to protect the murderers and nothing for law-abiding citizens! I'd rather be a little "paranoid" or over-cautious than be like a sleepwalker. In the end, we can only try to protect ourselves and loved ones...the criminals don't follow any rules, and if we do, we're at an even bigger disadvantage! Stay safe. Jim