Now the fad is gone, who still likes chisel grinds?

Him[Alvin Johnson], Mike Swaim and Joe Talmadge are the basic holy trinity of knife performance.
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Hard to disagree with that, very knowledgable men, though I would add Jeff Clark to the list to make it a foursome.


You should have a look at one of Alvin's knives, you put it right on the stone, there is no angle to hold at all. They are v-ground hollow/flat.

Picture a full hollow ground knife with a v-bevel applied right over the top which forms the edge, 6-8 degrees per side.
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That sounds like the geometery of a straight razor with a thinner spine. These are indeed easy to sharpen, the profile of the blade acts as a built in sharpening jig.

This would be a very nice blade profile for a pure cutting performance blade provided the spine thickness was not excessive (which it would obviously not be on one of Alvin's blades.)

It is interesting to see it described as a hollow grind with a flat grind overlay, which is how I think of straight razor's rather than a full flat grind with a hollow relief, which is how I think of that grind profile in terms of knives. six of one, half dozen of another I guess.
 
My Hartsfield Kozuka is still one heck of a cutting tool. Maybe not as much a all around cutter as a drop point but a very durable, reliable, fast, and lasting blade indeed.


Thanks,
Scott
 
I have a tiny sean perkins praescio with about a 2" chisel ground blade, but the ground side is convex. It cuts like a demon. It's a great little utility, hobby knife. I didn't really like the grind at first, due to preconceptions. However, you can't beat demonstrated performance. The knife continues to cut even when the edge is worn.

I bought a Livesay neck knife that was chisel ground, but the edge was way too thick and it was not durable. Performance was poor due to execution not design, and it is now a throwing knife.
 
knifetester said:
...I would add Jeff Clark
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There are lots of individuals who have contributed greatly to the knowledge of knives on the internet, the three I picked were essentially the foundation, they were active when I started back before 98, no bladeforums then and even knifeforums was not very old.

Those guys were around long before that, before any of the knife forums and very active on rec.knives and email lists, Joe already had the faq's written then which alone is a major landmark and they were well known at that point, and Mike had been doing blade comparisons for years and well Alvin is Alvin.

This isn't to say that they invented the knowledge, many people had similar ideas, those three however essentially were pretty much the first to really focus on performance on the internet and just talk about how to make knives work better.

Since that time I have talked to many users and makers who knew much the same stuff, many who knew it before, but again those guys really made major developments.

For example Mike Swaim was the first guy to do comparative reviews on the internet, this is common place now but I remember a time when knife performance was so sensitive that you could not even for example get concrete spec's on a knife.

There is a *huge* different in coming in and saying XXX is the best knife I have ever seen, I can do XXX with it all day long etc., and what Mike started doing which was use a bunch of different knives and talk about how they worked in relation to each other.

He would take out machetes, axes, etc., do chopping, take a bunch of fillet knives cut some fish, do salt soaks, etc. . A lot of this is common to see now but it certaintly was not back then, he also personally destroyed many of the knife myths, or attempted to anyway, many still survive.

They were also among the first guys to really attack hype, Alvin especially had no patience for over promotion, still doesn't which is why you don't see any of this on rec.knives for any length of time.

Again though there are lots of great individuals, Chas for example comes to the front on any such list, plus I don't doubt there were others active before 98 when I wasn't around that have dropped out of sight, and yes, Jeff is up there as well.

There are also lots of guys doing really solid work now and making major differences, makers like Cashen, Kirk, Martin etc., these are really solid guys who will talk about performance all day long, and the reviews forum here is just full of great information.

That sounds like the geometery of a straight razor with a thinner spine.
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That is it, he also started to do full convex grinds awhile back.

-Cliff
 
Cliff: Being sort of new here can you give me a little bit more help, is that Alvin Kinsey or blademan.org you are talking about?

Thanks again.
 
Cliff was referring to Alvin Johnston:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group...&enc_author=3GjdEQ0AAADmTTrM5XyQtEAZQrWKlWm8&

Also under the name Jeffry Johnston:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group...COGtsYiIOzCyO4TNRZDni7OPANdqfI6prRsqjc7uCt1A&

He also has a small website here:
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/

Here is an interesting quote by Alvin, it reminds me that when people are very gifted at doing things they make the complex seem easy.:

1050 is only about 60hrc as quenched. And to throw in a little
known fact (worthless trivia) 1.4% carbon steel is actually softer than
1080 as quenched. 1080 is ~66hrc and rises to ~67hrc when drawn at 200F
when it's at it's hardest. 1.4% carbon steel starts at ~64hrc and attains
~65hrc when drawn at 100F rises to meet 1080 at ~67hrc at 200F then creeps
up further to its peak at ~68hrc from a draw at 250F.

Originally it was thought that .83% carbon steel was the hardest, was it
the Vickers Test that proved otherwise?


When heat treating and cold treating 1095, I quench in quenching oil
(Brownell's) and wipe the blades off and place them in the freezer
compartment of my refridgerator (-5F) for a couple hours then take
them out and wash them off with soap just before putting them in a
toaster oven for one hour at 325F.


Sometimes I put them back in the freezer after cleaning them in
boiling water as a second cold treatment.


Either way they are -file- hard. Clamp it in a vise and bear down
with a good file and the file will skate right over it.


1095 at that hardness will bring back your faith in a knife blade to
"take and hold an edge". :) Stainless steel after that will seem sorta
brain dead, like your knife blade has a spring temper instead of a knife
temper. :)


I've been convinced by a fella (Ed Huntress) from the metalworking
newsgroup to try drawing some 1095 blades at 350F.


The simple cold treatment increases the hardness of the fresh quenched
steel and retains that increment of hardness increase (~2hrc) all the way
through the tempering process and retains its original strength too! :)


No kidding.


And all that's with just dumb ol' 1095. :)


Any alloying that increases hardenability (like Cr) can benfit even
more... to the point that stainless steel (>12% Cr) has to be cold
treated to be worth anything at all.


Alvin in AZ
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They are not my favorite grind, I only owned some Emersons before I knew how to sharpen. I'd still like to own a Hartsfield Zahid or one of RJ Martin's blades someday.
 
I could never get used to it.I traded the only knife I had with a chisel grind a mini commander .
 
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