Nude Old Timers

NO I understand it is a big secret and if you gave up your source you would have to ( quote kill who ever you gave up your source to ) Your words jokenly said. Your post was refreshing in that instead of claiming the information was part of your vast research you finally at least gave some recognition to the real author of your vast store of knowledge.
I can understand there wishing to give up information without wanting credit or wishing to be known, that is there right a reporter often writes what he is told from a source however he is a reporter and does not create the illusion that he is an expert on the subject. That is why books have bibliographys in which credit is given to where the information comes from and also validates it. It is good that you have finally started to concede that your posts are not as implied the result of fervent research but rather just repeating what you were told and accept as true. Or simply verbatum copy of what has been written but never has a source of where ( what volume author ect ) that this information was gleaned from. Are those sources for those, spouted plagerized, verbatum, postings also a secret? I have said all along that it is great to have someone who is truly committed to this aspect of this subject. All I am asking for is a bit of sourcing for your statments so that perhapes we also can make some decisions of there credibility instead of simply your intractable opinion of there validity. If my audacity of questioning your unimpingable sources or simply wanting to validate them myself, rather that just accepting your Godlike wisdom seems difficult to understand then continue to pretend everything you say is the result of your own study and writings. I won't mind, any more than any other opinion that classifys itself as an opinion, instead of a fact which cannot be verified since it is a big secret. LT
 
So now you are accusing me of plagerism? You think I do not write my own research? Interesting. Very interesting.
 
When you quote without a source you plagerise. That is a definition. I feel since you will not confim a source printed or other wise that your research is mainly what you are told or copy and repeat. LT
 
So the copyright police would prefer that I take my postings and leave? Because someone knows something you don't? And if you don't know it then it isn't so? Otay buhwheat, you got it.

Bye bye.
 
Where the heck did that tirade come from LT??? I have never had reason to doubt anything that Codger has written and since he wasn't born with his much better than average knowledge of things Schrade, I would fairly assume that he had read it and it was from research. I've only been around this fourum for a little over a year and in that time I've read countless threads from your key board which I accepted as fact without even once questioning your source, a lot of which is your say so. Who's to say that is not just hear say or imagination or copied facts without any credit given to or for the source. Nine times out of ten Codger quotes a catalog or reference in his wirtings and if for some logical reason he chooses not to, and makes that fact known, then I'm okay with that.

There is little enough by way of factual information left out there of what was once Schrade and I don't think any of it should be choked off for any reason. Hell, even hear say is better than nothing if combined with logic to arrive at an answer which makes sense.

LT, I did not write this to jump on your case maliciously, and I will not respond to a flame war with you. I enjoy and find very enlightening all of the information you share in your posts, just as I do Codger's and Orvet, and Larry, and Phil and yes even ElLob, and many others, and I sure hope each and every one of you continues with or without documentation.

Respectfully,

Paul
 
I asked for one thing just some documentation instead of having to take everything said on faith. Or else that without some kind of statment of where supposed facts came that these be considered opinions. I have been told that if I did not read these postings the author would not mind. OK now I responded on why I would simply like to know what written ( if nothing else ) source rhe author was quoting. Instead he says BYE BYE. I never mentioned copyright police or anything else other than simply knowing what source he was using ( written ) so that his contentions can be validated. I know I have some nerve sorry. I never was real big in the faith without validation department. Let me further state that what I know or care about manufacturing would fit in a nats naval ( with room for 3 caraway seeds ). It is ( I REPEAT ) invaluable to have someone who does care and know this aspect I just have trouble accepting anything on someones word without proof. As far as any info from me just ask and I will happily advise where I got my information and why I derived my opinion and who my source if there was one . It is anyones perogative to accept or disregard any posting I simply feel that an unsubstanciated fact is an opinion. My tirade comes from being told that if I didnt read the posting he would not mind. OK well that being the case all he has to do is what he told me pretend he didn't read my posting. I will mind because it is unnecessary to go through this but, I have always been open in my postings and dealings and simply am stating an opinion. I have not insulted anyone ( apparently now I am buhwheat ). I am from NY however to my knowledge not of that race. If BYE BYE is a threat of not further posting while to me it is of little concern content wise I would miss Micheal who I have always liked as far as I am concerned this is just a voicing of different opinions ( which I thought was allowed ). I am not angry just opinionated and I will not bow, bend, or burn for failing to state what I feel is an honest valid opinion. In fact Micheal rather than see you leave, let me ( not in anger but for over all good of all concerned at least for awhile ) it really is of no major concern to me and I feel you play a viable resource here all I really wanted was a simple substanciation of what you quote. One thing I will say if some one pissed me off the last thing in the world I would do would be walk away. Paul thankyou for your opinion. OH YES I FORGOT BYE BYE. LT
 
Well said Paul.I have been coming here less than a year and have learned much from all the posters.I would hate that before I can give an opinion or post an answer on here I have to look up and post references.Arnold
 
I rarely post here anymore, mostly because I don't have anything to say, but I still come here to read and learn. It should have been obvious to anyone who reads the posts in this forum on a regular basis that Codger was in touch with an ex-employee of Schrade.

For whatever reason, that man or woman did not want to post in the open here, but didn't mind sharing or passing along information through Codger. I never thought that Codger was claiming that he had obtained the manufacturing details through personal research, as that info is probably not published anywhere and could only come from an employee, which Codger is obviously not.

Lt, there's a chance that this mystery person knows you or at least knows of you by virtue of your posts here. You're a man of strong convictions and as such, you express your opinions in a forthright, unwavering manner. It's possible they didn't want to engage you in the long running debate over the whys and wherefores of the closing of Schrade, especially if he or she is still in the business with a different employer. Or, they could have been part of the senior management that has been blamed by some here for the demise of Schrade. Remember, there are at least several other ex-employees who do post here and these people would certainly know each other.

I was quite happy to see the info posted here, however Codger came by it. On occasion, the info came in the form of a running commentary and was added to as some of us had additional questions as I did in your Schrade Pachmayr topic. Someone was reading the posts here and feeding Codger the info. If they took umbrage to his posting it without naming the source, they wouldn't have continued giving it to him. They had a symbiotic relationship and we all benefited from it.

That being said, Michael, I regret that you find it necessary to delete your posts. If they were good enough to once write, they are good enough to remain. This is putting some major holes in many topics and will result in confusion for anyone who reads them in the future.

If I didn't know better, I'd think the two of you are acting like young Bucks in rut. Maybe you should each grab your favorite Schrade Bowie and meet at the Sandbar, or better yet, forget the knives and just meet at a regular bar. We're all losers in this duel.
 
Very well said, redshanks...and we miss your contributions to the forum.

Come on guys, we respect both of you greatly...and the forum would suffer from any battle between you two knowledgeable and enjoyable posters.

JMO.

Bill
 
Yep, we're all losers now.
I'm out of here for a while, guys.
My very best to all of you.
Phil
 
One of the main reasons I like (liked) this particular forum is that we try not to take ourselves very seriously, and we were always able to keep things smooth here. That we haven't had a full time moderator here for years is a testament to our civility. I have always been proud of that. Try checking out some of the other sub forums, see how "civil" they can be.

We have always been able to shrug off our differences and opinions (and some of us are quite opinionated ;) ) and have a marguerita or a crown royal. It would be a shame if we all took our football and went home.

I tend to offer very little info of substance here, except some pictures of knives and socks. I find everyone's posts entertaining and informative. I know not nor care not if all the information is historically or factually accurate. I enjoy the read.

Geez, I hope I'm not this crochety down the road.

And I thought my 11 year old son and his friend were like a soap opera...

Glenn
 
This forum will definitely be worse off without these major contributors. As a rookie here I usually have little information to add. I'm usually the one asking questions. I have great respect for all who take the time to share their knowledge and act as long-distance mentors. Let's hope that this too shall pass.
 
Eyegor said:
This forum will definitely be worse off without these major contributors. As a rookie here I usually have little information to add. I'm usually the one asking questions. I have great respect for all who take the time to share their knowledge and act as long-distance mentors. Let's hope that this too shall pass.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

As another rookie, I enjoy gaining knowledge on the subject as well as acquiring knives. This place has a wealth of knowledge.

C'mon gentlemen. No one likes it when someone takes their ball and goes home. Get out the shotgun, cane pole or the golf clubs (or whatever it is that brings you back to Zen) and spend a little time away from the knives and forums if you need to. Then get back here to keep us rookies from buying frost cutlery stuff :p .

Chris
 
This is terrible! This was the best forum on BF!:grumpy: !
 
Well, my friends, I've given myself some time to think through the recent happenings, and I've noticed that even before this, we have lost some of our regular contributors, or at least they haven't been quite as regular as in the past. I don't have any answer, but I do wonder why that is the case. I read back through the archives paying attention to who was posting more than what they had to say and I was amazed at so many names I remembered and liked that just haven't been here lately.

I thought about what I wrote immediately after I became aware of what was going on, and I'm still pretty much of the same opinon that I was when I wrote that post back upstream in this thread. Regradless of where a person gets their information, or if it is in fact just their opinion, or even a "best guess", it's still more than most of us know and it all added to our collective knowledge base. I miss it already!....and I'm pissed that it is gone, if even only for a little while. It's not about who knows the most, or where they came by their information. It's about sharing it with a bunch of guys who really appreciate it.

Coming to this forum has become a daily habit for me...3 or 4 or 5 times a day. This is where a large group of my friends live, and I don't have enough friends to spare any, no matter how large that number is. I'd really like to see some of the guys who were with us back in the "Katrina" relief days come back and post some more regularly. I guess it's hard to post if you don't have anything to say, but I haven't read anything from Del in a while, and Larry, I really would enjoy more volume from your keyboard as you have time. ElLob, more from you will keep me in a better mood all the time, and Don Luis, please come more often.

I know I speak for all of us when I say, "Codger, come on back!!"

Well, when I started this, I didn't know what I was going to say....and I still don't. I'm just pissed, frustrated and disappointed, and I'd really like to have my "comfort zone" back.

I'll see acouple of you guys in Austin, this week end and I'm REALLY looking forward to that.

Paul
 
I for one viewed this place as a nice place to visit and shoot the sh*t for a while. You sometimes have to suspend belief, and listen to myth, but that's the fun! I certainly don't mind if someone renders an opinion, and even if they claim it's gospel, I can apply a few grains of salt if I choose! No one will ever know all the truth of history, but listening to how someone interprets it is what community is all about.
We humans are fragmented enough, wars everywhere! Let's not start eating each other!! Live and let live.
 
sheathmaker said:
....I know I speak for all of us when I say, "Codger, come on back!!"....
Paul
Click to expand...

Paul, guys, I'm not gone, just taking a breather. I'll admit to being furious for a while and unsure of what to do. I was rather blindsided by what happened, which I suppose was as intended. I had been through this more than once in the past and thought I had explained the situation sufficiently to satisfy all. For a while at least, I will utilize a forum feature I deplore, and be oblivious to the poster who started this. I know, it is rather like my grandaughter sticking her fingers in her ears so as to not hear what she does not want to hear, but the only alternative is to further damage this forum by responding to what I feel are unjustified taunts. I'd rather not go there.

I have a passion for all things Schrade, as many if not most of you do. If I had spent as many hours (and as much of my income) on college courses as I have my research over the past two years, I would have another college degree by now. Still, I have repeatedly denied being an expert. The only experts on this subject can be counted on one hand, and they worked at Schrade, lived it daily for years, made knives or caused them to be made.

Any posts I deleted will eventually be replaced and enlarged (possibly to the delight or dismay of some). Immediately following what happened, I was of a mind to follow the example of the ghosts of members past and withdraw from the forum entirely. But the true value of knowledge lies in it's being shared, and until I can put my words down in another medium for wider access to those interested, this forum is it. Not to mention that I greatly value the friends I have here and the invaluable help they have provided with my research. As I have written in the past, we all learn when questions are asked. You guys constantly send me digging into my filing cabinets and binders to find answers for you. When I do put all of this in a more permanent media, anyone interested will have all the footnotes and bibliographical information they could hope for. In the meantime you'll just have to either prove or disprove what I write on your own.

I apologize to all who are posting members here, or just buzz by seeking information. Not wanting to get into a flame war with a person I used to respect on this forum is the reason I just stepped back for a while. Add to that the fact that it is mid summer here and the peak of my construction season, I've been working 11-14 hour days in the heat. That takes a toll on a body, especially one of advancing years. It was 117 degrees in the pool where I was troweling grout last week for five hours. It was tough when I was young. Harder now. I envy you gents who invested well and retired, and can now persure activities that don't demand a lot of physical effort. I figure I have three more years at most that I can do this construction work, then I'll be back working with the law firms in intellectual property law or in manufacturing engineering. Yes, it does pay better than construction, but I love working out of doors, and seeing the end product of my skills and knowledge.

Meanwhile, you guys have answered questions here with style and knowledge that did not in any way need my input. The strength of this forum does not rest upon one or two people, and you illustrated that point quite well. Bravo!

Codger :thumbup:
 
Thanks, Codger! I look forward to your return in full whenever that is. It is a real relief just to know it is going to happen.

Paul
 
Does any of this matter? 1, I was the one told that if I pretended not to read a posted reply the author would not mind. I was in fact being told that my feeling ment nothing ok well then I made them known. I was not the one who was " furious ". I SIMPLY RESPONDEDTO THAT STATMENT. 2, I also asked for some kind of documentation so that the postings could be verified. Did anyone happen to see this quote "It is anyones perogative to accept or disregard any posting I simply feel that an unsubstanciated fact is an opinion" It is anyones right to accept a posting or have an opinion. Apparently some of you wish to do this that is your right. 3, I did not call anyone names as I was, although I thought it was funny when I was. I have never taunted nor will I. I did not make statments by innuendo or behind anyones back. Did anyone happen to see this quote " Micheal rather than see you leave, let me ( not in anger but for over all good of all concerned at least for awhile ) I feel you play a viable resource here all I really wanted was a simple substanciation of what you quote." I did not pick up my ball and go away in a huff I deferred to you and asked you not to leave choosing to instead leave my self to for the good of all so that you would feel free to contribute. I have not said you were not an expert I said you were invaluable to the subject and as such I was willing to leave so that you would continue to contribute. I also totally agree with this quote " The only experts on this subject can be counted on one hand, and they worked at Schrade, lived it daily for years, made knives or caused them to be made." All this as i said was unnecessary I have only wished you the best from the beginning I have always sent all the information and extras i could whenever i had cause to send you a package. You once said it was like Christmas when you received a package from me. I only wish you the best of luck and health. This quote is all I asked for. " anyone interested will have all the footnotes and bibliographical information they could hope " That is what I asked for that is why I was told that I should pretend I did not read the posting that is why I was called names that is why you left that is why I offered to walk away rather than have you leave. You may well choose to be oblivious to me however it is not necessary since I have no intention then or now bothering or taunting anyone. I asked a question it was responded to by being to told i could pretend not to read the post. I responded to that. You were not the poor picked on individual you started it and then quit ( I do not know why a simple request to validate input would be such a big problem, however apparently it is not important to others and it is not worth further consideration by me ).( If I ever make a statment and if any one wants to know my reasons for doing so I will be glad to respond with any information I have regarding source or validity. ) I am glad you are back. I did not start a " flame war " I asked a question and was told to pretend I did not read the posting. I still respect you and again wish you well and am glad you will be posting again. I am sorry that my request to validate your statments caused such anger and trepidation on your part. Since you have experience working with law firms regarding IP I thought the validation of statments would be as important to you as it is to me but apparently is of no consequence to some others. I wish you good luck I am sorry if I responded to harshly when I felt I had been insulted I should have been bigger than that.

Forums and the people on them come and go. I do not know why Del does not post more or the Don or Larry as far as I know with are all friends. However Larry ( to the best of my knowledge) is due to be over at my house for a visit tomorrow so I will ask him if I am the cause of his not posting more.

Good Luck and I am sorry that my response to your posting caused me to respond to harshly causing your anger and retreat. I am glad that members have asked for you to continue posting and coaxed you back, which as I have said was my wish as well. Once again good luck on your endeavers. I will continue to read your postings whether you choose to ignor my opinions or not and I will continue to respect you and your opinions even if you feel you cannot do the same for me. LT PS I urge the reader to read this post carefully since it seems I have been labeled the bad guy perhapes I am, your choice, however while my rebuttal to the initial slight may have been more that needed all I originally asked for was some documantation on where the posted information came from. To me this subject is closed
 
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