(NYC) Caught a misdemeanor

H

HellGuard99

Joined
Sep 21, 2009
Messages
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Today, I was about to board the subway with my friends until a LEO glanced at my pocket and saw my pocket clip of my CRKT Drifter (2.9'' Blade). For this I was put up against the wall and had every content on me emptied and searched thoroughly. The questions began with myself asking,"Why am I being arrested? My blade is in legal limits and that I am of age to carry a knife." Because of my daily EDC tasks and constant fumbling with the flicking system, the pivot pin has came loose enough that with extreme force (totally unconventional way of opening the knife as the LEO raised his arm and flung down), the blade flicked open. I told them that it is a manual knife but was quickly told that because of this ability that it is branded as a "Gravity Knife."

Shortly I was asked questions such as "Why do you carry this knife?" In which I responded with, "Because of utility tasks and not to mention that I have been mugged 4 times in 2 years." The last time of my mugging, I had the CRKT Drifter on me but did not even proceed to take it out for self defensive purposes even though I received a beating.

They proceeded to ask questions such as,"Are you carrying weed?" and "Do you have a gun?" I politely responded to all their questions truthfully. They even said that with my stature (I'm 5'5'', 130lbs, quite a small asian teenager), that I probably know martial arts. They even played an unnecessary prank on me that involved one of the LEOs placing their gun in my messenger bag and asking me, "What is this?" Of course, I did not find it to be of comedic nature and politely responded "It's not mine," even though I was about to produce excrement inside my pants.

They imprisoned me for 2 hours without calling my parents and according to my Uncle that is in CUNY Baruch right now that such a behavior is uncalled for and that not contacting my parents is unlawful since I am under 18. I am 16 years old, and NY knife laws state that individuals of sixteen or older are legally able to carry knives under 4''. I'm currently a law student and this is my first offense, and I really need some advice right now. My court summons is next month. Is my case eligible for a free lawyer? I'm consulting my law teacher tomorrow for some advice and hopefully I can get some progress. Guys from BF, please help me!

The law should be with me, but I'm not sure with the people of NYC. (I'm a lurker, explains this being my 2nd post.)

Extra information:
They asked me what were all the scrapes and injuries on my arms. I told them that I am a skateboarder (Not your conventional skateboarder, I'm a longboarder and I'm not exactly into traditional skateboarding culture). They automatically stereotyped me and asked me if I do graffiti as well. They ignored my explanations that I'm not a typical skater, and plainly stated that, "All/Pretty much all skaters are into graffiti." They asked a lot of questions and played pranks that was totally unnecessary and demeaning. I stated that I was a A and B high scoring student in my high school, but they proceeded to spew rubbish saying that my friends told them that I'm actually a C and D student. I found their behavior very threatening and unprofessional at the time of the confrontation. Throughout this I tried to remain calm, think logically and refer to my findings in law. LEOs are honest men trying to make a living, but with this behavior my respect for LEOs has gone down dramatically.

Not to mention. When they were asking me about guns, they saw my box of electronic cigarettes. It was clearly not a gun. But they proceeded to hit me with numerous repeats of "Is this a gun?" In which I replied "No, it is not a gun, it is electronic cigarettes - would you like to try?"
 
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You need a lawyer.
You have three problems.

1. Your knife was visible, since they could see the clip.
In NYC, knives must be concealed.

2. You were carrying a gravity knife.
By NYC policy, any knife that can be opened by inertia is a gravity knife, a comparable crime to carrying an automatic knife.

3. Never ever suggest you carry for self-defense.
That makes even the most innocuous knife a weapon.
 
I will help a bit, but you are guilty. As a former NYC LEO, they were correct in holding you as long as they wanted. You are 16, so you are an aduilt in NY, and they could have kept you for two days or more on a class A misd charge. They gave you a pink "C" summons? Criminal Court, or did they finger print you and give you a desk apperance ticket ( DAT). What was the charge? NYC Admin Code 10-133 or NYC PL 265.01? You stated it was a misd so I assume 265.01.

You stated it was a weapon, so right there you are guilty of possession of a dangerous knife no matter how it opens. ( same charge 265.01).

Answer the questions I asked and I will comment more. If a summons, you are lucky, and if the NYC Admin code you are very lucky. Let me know the answers....

Where did this happen? Brooklyn, Manhattan? Queens? Big difference in each. As for their comments, don't make an issue of it now. Later on you can make a CCRB complaint if you feel it is needed. If they really put one of their firearms in your bag, that is a major issue for them. Do you have a witness for that? IS there a subway camera near? Failure to safe guard a firearm in such a manner would make the guys in IAB ( internal affairs) drool....
 
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I smell a troll here. First of all, he is a law student at 16 years of age? Maybe times have changed remarkably in the past 35 years or so, but when I was 16 I was a high school student (junior year) and had not even taken the SAT college entrance exams yet! He must be a legal prodigy because it would be next to impossible to graduate from high school, graduate from a four-year college and enter a typical three-year law school before the age of 22.
 
Planting a gun in your messenger bag - this is hard to believe
 
TOM1960 said:
I smell a troll here. First of all, he is a law student at 16 years of age? Maybe times have changed remarkably in the past 35 years or so, but when I was 16 I was a high school student (junior year) and had not even taken the SAT college entrance exams yet! He must be a legal prodigy because it would be next to impossible to graduate from high school, graduate from a four-year college and enter a typical three-year law school before the age of 22.
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Me too. Major :rolleyes: on this one.
 
I am not an official law student but I am taking courses offered by my high school to start off. In addition, there is no reason for me to type such a long post if I had the intention of trolling.
tom19176 said:
I will help a bit, but you are guilty. As a former NYC LEO, they were correct in holding you as long as they wanted. You are 16, so you are an aduilt in NY, and they could have kept you for two days or more on a class A misd charge. They gave you a pink "C" summons? Criminal Court, or did they finger print you and give you a desk apperance ticket ( DAT). What was the charge? NYC Admin Code 10-133 or NYC PL 265.01? You stated it was a misd so I assume 265.01.

You stated it was a weapon, so right there you are guilty of possession of a dangerous knife no matter how it opens. ( same charge 265.01).

Answer the questions I asked and I will comment more. If a summons, you are lucky, and if the NYC Admin code you are very lucky. Let me know the answers....

Where did this happen? Brooklyn, Manhattan? Queens? Big difference in each. As for their comments, don't make an issue of it now. Later on you can make a CCRB complaint if you feel it is needed. If they really put one of their firearms in your bag, that is a major issue for them. Do you have a witness for that? IS there a subway camera near? Failure to safe guard a firearm in such a manner would make the guys in IAB ( internal affairs) drool....
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This took place in Brooklyn at the Coney Island-Stillwell Station. They gave me a PL 265.01 with a DAT. It was one of those stops that all the trains at, thus it should be filled with cameras. I'll ask my friend to check for me. I had two witnesses that would be my friends they asked to come over. I have no experience in confrontations with the law as this is my first offense, and I accept that I am guilty for carrying a knife. But do I wonder, are the articles that I read about being able to carry knives, misinformation? (Say I start carrying Swiss Armys or something of that nature). Will this stay permanent on my record? I desire to be enrolled into a good college and do not want an offense like this to hinder my dreams as well as hindering my goal of being a law abiding citizen that is of use in society. Please, assist me.
Seems like EDCing in NYC is next to impossible...
 
That sucks dude but from what I have read in this thread to carry a knife in NYC it has to be totally concealed. The cop could see the clip of your knife, so it was not concealed. So if you carried a swiss army in your pocket it could not be seen. I would just get the best lawyer you can afford and ask him what your options are.

In Maryland there is a diversion plan for first offenders on misdemeanors. You get Probation before Judgment and if you complete the probation, all of its limitations, and do not re offend you get the crime wiped off your record. I am not sure if they have that in NYC but I would ask a lawyer.
 
You are in good company. King George did not like it when John Adams exercised his personal liberty either. Well done.

I cannot tolerate an oppressive central bureaucracy that controls the citizenry through fear and intimidation.
 
tsacain said:
That sucks dude but from what I have read in this thread to carry a knife in NYC it has to be totally concealed. The cop could see the clip of your knife, so it was not concealed. So if you carried a swiss army in your pocket it could not be seen. I would just get the best lawyer you can afford and ask him what your options are.

In Maryland there is a diversion plan for first offenders on misdemeanors. You get Probation before Judgment and if you complete the probation, all of its limitations, and do not re offend you get the crime wiped off your record. I am not sure if they have that in NYC but I would ask a lawyer.
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My options are very limited because of my age and my family's financial status. From what I have read, it is illegal to conceal a knife, but a smarter way to EDC. If I want to continue EDCing, I don't know which path to take - to be a law abiding citizen, or be sneaky and get busted with concealment if I get caught.

@Powernoodle - Thanks, that was a great morale boost for me.

Does anyone know if it is unlawful for this to take place without notifying my parents themselves?
 
HellGuard99 said:
My options are very limited because of my age and my family's financial status. From what I have read, it is illegal to conceal a knife, but a smarter way to EDC. If I want to continue EDCing, I don't know which path to take - to be a law abiding citizen, or be sneaky and get busted with concealment if I get caught.
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Stick with a Swiss army knife or similar non-locking folder while in the city limits...
If you really need a 1 handed higher performance knife, go for something like the Spyderco UKPK. And get rid of the clip.

Avoid locking folding knives like the plague.
 
jfn said:
Stick with a Swiss army knife or similar non-locking folder while in the city limits...
If you really need a 1 handed higher performance knife, go for something like the Spyderco UKPK. And get rid of the clip.

Avoid locking folding knives like the plague.
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The Spyderco UKPK still looks like something that LEOs would try to run you down for. Would the Swiss Army Trekker be a smart choice?
 
HellGuard99 said:
The Spyderco UKPK still looks like something that LEOs would try to run you down for. Would the Swiss Army Trekker be a smart choice?
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Definately better than a locking folder. I think the trekker is a little bulky for pocket carry though.

Dont' discount the UKPK. It was designed for UK knife laws (which believe it or not are stricter than NYC).
The primary issue isn't what the knife looks like, it's the locking system that classifies it as a "gravity knife". The UKPK is a slippie, so no gravity knife, even if they can flip it open 100 times in 1 minute.
Just take off the clip and keep it in your pocket.

EDIT: I carry an SAK farmer all the time. If anyone is within sight, I'll typically use that instead of my small sebenza (which has been called a "hunting knife" by some of my sheeple co-workers) Having a 1 handed opening is useful, but not really necessary.
 
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HellGuard99 said:
From what I have read, it is illegal to conceal a knife, but a smarter way to EDC.
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What you have read does not apply to NYC.
In NYC, even legal knives must be carried completely concealed.
Personally, I wouldn't even carry a knife that printed.
I carry my Victorinox Farmer under my wallet.
 
You had me until ""They even played an unnecessary prank on me that involved one of the LEOs placing their gun in my messenger bag and asking me, "What is this?""


I have heard plenty of horror stories from fellows New "Yawka"s about knives so I dont think your telling a complete lie.


I personally have not had a problem. I carry my knife unclipped, and sometimes nothing but a spyderco cricket in my wallet. (thats when I am in the city)

When home or going out to places around my house I feel more comfortable carrying a larger knife, even clipped.



And why does a 16 yr old need a box of electronic cigarettes.?
 
Cosmo7809 said:
You had me until ""They even played an unnecessary prank on me that involved one of the LEOs placing their gun in my messenger bag and asking me, "What is this?""


I have heard plenty of horror stories from fellows New "Yawka"s about knives so I dont think your telling a complete lie.


I personally have not had a problem. I carry my knife unclipped, and sometimes nothing but a spyderco cricket in my wallet. (thats when I am in the city)

When home or going out to places around my house I feel more comfortable carrying a larger knife, even clipped.



And why does a 16 yr old need a box of electronic cigarettes.?
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I know it sounds absurd, that a LEO would perform such an act, but I am not trying to deceive anybody. They were holding onto my messengerbag, going through my things asking if I had a gun in there. I replied with a no, and when one of the other LEOs were done questioning me, my attention was brought back to my bag in which he placed his handgun inside his bag. After telling him that it is not mine, he briefly took it out of my bag and put it back into his holster that was concealed under his clothing.

When they were emptying the contents on me. They saw my iPod and my phone and was asking me if I stole them, in which I replied no. They joked around talking about going through my electronic devices to see if it was stolen. These devices are bought with my hard earned money that I made with my summer job.

And I own a box of electronic cigarettes because I used to be a young smoker, and is using this as a way to feed my addiction without all the carcinogens involved. Basically a healthier alternative to smoking the real thing.
 
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Since this is the internet, I will not tell you all how common the wise ass behavior of some officers is. First, they did not give you any sort of break, as they charged you with the highest charge for what you did. Their comments, could clearly be a cause for displine, and the gun in your bag part, is cause for dismissal if taken to the Trail Room in the NYPD internal review process. I should have posted my guess that it was Brooklyn in my first response. You are 16, so there is no need to notify your parents by the police. Look up NYS CPL and see what the Criminal Procedure Law tells you if you wish. The knife can be lawfully concealled as the Sullivan law was taken off the books about 40 years ago. The fact that a flickable knife has been deemed a gravity knife is a fact of life in NY. You can ask for a lawyer if you fall within the economic guide lines. This is a serious charge that could result in a jail term of up to one day less then a year in jail. You are an adult, so it will be a life long record. The ADA will speak to you on your first court date. I am sure they will offer you a plea bargin, which in Brooklyn may very possibly be disorderly conduct with a fine and community service. The issue is the transit system has their own special division in the court system, and they tend to be less friendly than the regular court system.
I suggest you bring proof of where you bought the knife ( hopefully in NYC or NYS). There was a recent case in which a construction worker was charged with a gavity knife for having a stanley folding razor knife, and the judge allowed the fact it was widely sold as a defense. ( this was a federal case called Izzary vs NY).

You statement that you have it for self defense is hard to remove. Based on your age, lack of record, and the fact this has become a standard arrest for the transit division, you should come out ok. Wear a suit and tie to court. My office is accross the street at Metrotech from the court house, and all day long you see people going in for these type of BS charges. I have a meeting with the DA in Brooklyn next week, and I will ask around a bit more, as I have been out of the city's work force for awhile, and I want to brush up on the transit court part a bit more.
 
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I must say that I for one think the OP is telling the truth. He has reached out to me, and I hope to point him in the right direction on how to handle this. I will inform him of his possible options, and let him decide with the help of his parents, but he is very scared and not a troll....
 
I'm with ya HellGaurd,they had no reason,other than they could,to play pranks and harrass you.Just because their cops does'nt give them an excuse to bully people,it's total BS!
 
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