NYC Knife Laws: action on folder tightened down so it can barely move

C

CrayZ

Joined
Jul 2, 2003
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12
I have a folding knife that is shorter then 4 inches. (the entire blade)
I want to tighten the action of the blade to make is impossible to "flick open".
I may still be able to open with the thumb stud using one hand.
Would such a knife be legal in NYC?

Or, is it illegal to have a folder that can be opened with one hand even if it is impossible to "flick open"?

Are "folding knives" illegal or just type of folding knife that is also a "gravity knife"?
 
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The way NYC has decided that any locking folder is a "gravity" knife if it can be partially opened, held by the blade and then, using the weight of the handle to lock open if swung vigorously multiple times, makes ANY LOCKING FOLDER a candidate for being a ticket to jail.

My solution is "I don't go to NYC." I passed on a free trip to NYC for several reasons, one of which is that very attitude. If I couldn't safely carry even a 2.75 inch Buck 484, the company could pack sand. And I told them so. They're big enough that my attitude won't hurt their bottom line, so they don't care and I never lost anything in NYC that wasn't replaceable/findable elsewhere.
 
A folding knife opened with one hand while holding onto the blade...

Well that scuttles my plans.
 
The NYPD plays by its own rules. They don't look for reasons to exclude, they look for excuses to include.
 
zzyzzogeton said:
The way NYC has decided that any locking folder is a "gravity" knife if it can be partially opened, held by the blade and then, using the weight of the handle to lock open if swung vigorously multiple times, makes ANY LOCKING FOLDER a candidate for being a ticket to jail.

My solution is "I don't go to NYC." I passed on a free trip to NYC for several reasons, one of which is that very attitude. If I couldn't safely carry even a 2.75 inch Buck 484, the company could pack sand. And I told them so. They're big enough that my attitude won't hurt their bottom line, so they don't care and I never lost anything in NYC that wasn't replaceable/findable elsewhere.
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Agreed. Stay out of NYC.
 
It has to open in one fluid move, but the officer can make many tries, and yes they can hold the blade and flick the handle open, but many judges don't honor that, but a few do...Non weapon slip joint is the best choice. There are some liner locking sod busters out there that will never flick open too. Great Eastern Cutlery makes a few liner lock folders that have a true half stop that will never ever flick open. I have a few of them. The design stops the blade half way no matter what. They also have very strong back springs and are a pain to open, but therefore legal....
 
I would not try my luck with this one. Aside from not going there, the safest bet if you're going to carry a knife in NYC is carry a fixed blade (of some common type, not a karambit or weapon type design) well under 4" blade length and keep it COMPLETELY concealed (no clip visible, nothing).

NYC overall is a fairly safe city, certainly a lot better than it was 20 years ago, especially in lower and midtown Manhattan. There are some very rough areas (Harlem, Jamaica etc.) but the touristy sections are pretty good. You routinely see a very visible NYPD presence, often foot patrols in groups of 2-4 officers in Manhattan. The subway, especially late at night, can be rather umm interesting. The Wrangler "open fly" jeans commercial comes to mind...
 
swiss army knife, spyderco uk pen knife , about the only legal knives you can carry in nyc .
 
Great city but draconian laws on anything fun (knives, guns, etc). As usual it comes down to how you are handling yourself there. I carried everyday for several years and never had a single problem even though I experienced a few random bag searches on the subway. My Sebenza was clipped discretely in my waistband. Otherwise I am not exactly going around attracting police attention.

I also imagine it will come down to the specific LEO you are dealing with. Some might let a Griptilian pass without issue while others throw a fit over a UKPK. Unfortunately knife law enforcement is about as inconsistent as it gets.
 
agreed, I live in nyc and have never been stopped. it really depends on who you are dealing with. That being said, my knife is discretely clipped to the side.
 
mrknife said:
agreed, I live in nyc and have never been stopped. it really depends on who you are dealing with. That being said, my knife is discretely clipped to the side.
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Let me just interject a little reality to this conversation. I get phone calls weekly from citizens who are astonished to learn they are breaking the law in NYC with a knife clipped to anywhere visible. Many have carried a knife clipped to their pocket for years without a problem, until it became one. The ONLY safe way to carry a knife in NYC is COMPLETELY concealed, including not printing (visible through clothing). Including not carried in a way that it or the clip might be revealed if the wind or something pulls aside a jacket normally covering it. We have seen folks arrested for a knife clipped to their inside jacket pocket that was revealed going through a turnstile. While accurate figures are hard to come by, I can assure you the many thousands (and likely tens of thousands) of citizens arrested to date didn't expect to be arrested. If the LEO decides the knife in question is an "illegal gravity knife," then you will lose a lot more than that knife.
 
Critter has it right. I was at Dicks sporting goods today, and was talking to a young man who worked there in the fishing department. He was arrested last month for a "gravity knife" as he was leaving work, going fishing ( a legal way to possess a gravity knife). I let him know the law, and thankfully he has a future court date. Doug I am going to ask him to contact you as there is more to this case. The NYPD does not know the law well concerning knife possession, and they seem to view all knives to be illegal even when they are not, or the law allows you to possess them for certain uses....
 
tom19176 said:
Critter has it right. I was at Dicks sporting goods today, and was talking to a young man who worked there in the fishing department. He was arrested last month for a "gravity knife" as he was leaving work, going fishing ( a legal way to possess a gravity knife). I let him know the law, and thankfully he has a future court date. Doug I am going to ask him to contact you as there is more to this case. The NYPD does not know the law well concerning knife possession, and they seem to view all knives to be illegal even when they are not, or the law allows you to possess them for certain uses....
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That's unfortunate to hear about, hopefully it can be resolved before it costs him (both literally and intrinsically) any more than it already has.

On a related note, the NYPD's training and general hiring practices, well let's just say they leave much room for improvement, especially on legal and firearms. My brother is a former local LEO here in TX and currently an 1811 in the NYC area, according to him it is a sad reality that the NYPD rank and file patrol are generally poorly trained and often wouldn't or couldn't have been hired at other more selective agencies.
 
CrayZ said:
I now have a Spyderco Pingo:

http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=781

On the high end you can buy this:

Three Rivers Knives LTC200 Nomad Slipjoint - Monkey Edge FRAG Pattern

http://www.monkeyedge.com/Three-Rivers-Knives-LTC200-Nomad-Slipjoint-FRAG-p/trk0004-mu138.htm
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I have a question about the Pingo.

The blade does not lock in place when opened.

It just opens and if you want to close it you can do so without manipulating a lever, or button ect.

Here is the problem- I can open it with one hand by holding onto the blade and whipping it down using the weight of the handle to open it.

Keep in mind the blade does NOT lock--- does the fact that I can open with one hand make it illegal in NYC?

Is there such thing as a gravity knife that does NOT lock?
 
Here is where the NYPD really goes off track. A non locking but flick able knife COULD be considered a dangerous knife if the officer can some how explain that it is designed for use as a weapon. That model does not seem to be to me, but you never know. There was a case that actually went to trial in the boro of Queens( Part of NYC), in which the NYPD had directed its officers to consider assisted openers to be switchblades. The wording of the law defining switchblades is extremely clear, however the officer and Queens DA felt differently enough to go to trial. The jury found the defendant not guilty as his lawyer was able to explain what the law was, and how this type of knife does not fit the definition.

The logical response to your question is NO if it does not lock it is not a gravity knife, but butter fly knives swing open and do not lock, and many courts have ruled them NOT to be gravity knives, but you will be arrested for carrying one....Perhaps in that case the "dangerous knife designed for use as a weapon" could apply....

The last section of this shows the details of the Queens case. I think those following the NYC law will find it interesting to read:
http://newyorkcriminaldefenseblawg.com/tag/gravity-knife/
 
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It should be noted also that not everyone caught with a "gravity knife" in NYC gets arrested, some are written a summons and released. That said, NYC is not a place you want to get arrested, expect to spend easily 12+ hours in detention usually even in the borough jails. If you somehow end up at Rikers, well, let's just say that showering in a seated position would be a valuable skill to have!
 
If I ever go to NYC (highly doubtful), I'm bringing a slip-joint in a leather pouch in my pocket.

I don't want to screw around with idiotic legal nonsense, so I'll just avoid the hassle. :)
 
John in NYC today, the "gravity knife" charge is a A Misd ( a crime one step below a felony) and permission needs to be granted and additional forms filled out and signed off on the allow a DAT ( Desk Apperance Ticket) to be issued in lieu of putting someone through the system, so unless you truly have a very good relationship with someone, almost no officer will take the extra effort needed to not keep you in jail over night. A summons (really a Criminal Court Summons) is normally only issued for the NYC Amin Code offense as that is only a violation and not a crime by NYS PL definition. That is the way it is now in NYC, so I am not sure if you are quoting old methods.....
 
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