Thank you for the clarification, you are correct (I checked). And yes, unless you have connections (or really good luck), don't expect any favors.
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NYC Knife Laws: action on folder tightened down so it can barely move
- Thread starter CrayZ
- Start date
Thank you for the clarification, you are correct (I checked). And yes, unless you have connections (or really good luck), don't expect any favors.
No Problem John, I am glad you checked! I just like the most current information to be what the readers see. Things have changed in NYC a lot, some for the better and some for the worse. The biggest issue is the NYPD's method of determining its officers effectiveness by the number of arrests an officer makes. Instead of stopping and saying if crime has decreased then the number of those arrested for committing crimes should also decrease. Instead the number of arrests and summons issued is expected to increase! I hate to say that now with the new mayor making "stop and frisk" almost a thing of the past, a visible knife clip will now become a beacon to those officers looking to make a weapons arrest.....
New York penal code 265.00, section 5 states
"Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released
from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the
application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in
place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device."
As best as I can tell, a locking Opi would be considered a gravity knife since it locks open. In the penal code, there is no requirement for the lock to automatically engage.
This is an interesting question. The courts have deemed butterfly knives not to be gravity knives since it takes an additional action to lock them. The word automatic does not appear, but for the most part it seems the courts feel it should be one motion.
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Has anyone ever considered the Bob Dozier/Kabar Big Easy? Blade is under 4", can't lock open and cannot be flicked open by the handle or the blade. It can also be purchased for under $40 bucks.
NeoClassic
Gold Member
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But if the Opinel blade is locked in the closed position, it cannot be "released from the handle or sheath thereof by force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force."
I'm not saying anyone should carry an Opinel in NYC, I'm just questioning whether it fits the most literal or strictest interpretation of the penal code.
Last edited:
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Yes, but then if you unlock it to open it, the blade could be swung around "out of the handle" using inertia from a wrist flick and then locked in place using the "or other devicepart of the law."
I know I being silly here, but the way the laws are bent there, a LEO looking for arrest numbers, not real convictions (as some have intimated here as happening) then a LEO COULD arrest someone just because "the blade could be released using inertia (hey, just unlock it and hold it in a position where the blade swings out of the handle 'by gravity') and it could be locked using an other device." So, voila, by NYC interpretation, an unassuming, very innocent tool becomes the feared gravity knife.
Nothing says an NYC LEO has to use good judgement and common sense if he/she is trying to boost his/her arrest rates.
I know I being silly here, but the way the laws are bent there, a LEO looking for arrest numbers, not real convictions (as some have intimated here as happening) then a LEO COULD arrest someone just because "the blade could be released using inertia (hey, just unlock it and hold it in a position where the blade swings out of the handle 'by gravity') and it could be locked using an other device." So, voila, by NYC interpretation, an unassuming, very innocent tool becomes the feared gravity knife.
Nothing says an NYC LEO has to use good judgement and common sense if he/she is trying to boost his/her arrest rates.
You are correct that the penal code doesn't specify a manual release. But because most "purpose built" gravity knives (i.e. Eickhorn LL80, various Ibberson models) requires a manually activated release to drop the blade, I would not want to take that argument.
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I've try to find info on this topic with no luck. Regarding NYC, whats legal to own on private property like your home (apartment lobby, vestibule etc,) In other words can you buy and own a double edge throwing knife with knuckle dusters (in the shape of a throwing star) in your own house.
Any facts or theory's out their??.........nightdriver1
Any facts or theory's out their??.........nightdriver1
The term "possession" in NYS law means you have control over the item ANYWHERE which includes your house. The term "possession by any person" is normally understood to mean a person has the item on them in a common area.
Nightdriver, throwing stars are defined as illegal in NYS and it would be simple to consider that a dangerous knife if nothing else. Read NYS PL sections 265.00 for definitions and 265.01 for the law. You can read and draw your own conclusions....
http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article265.htm
Nightdriver, throwing stars are defined as illegal in NYS and it would be simple to consider that a dangerous knife if nothing else. Read NYS PL sections 265.00 for definitions and 265.01 for the law. You can read and draw your own conclusions....
http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article265.htm
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Critter, have there been any reports of people arrested for small pocket-carry type fixed blades? Something like an Izula? Just curious. Thanks.
Jordan
Jordan
Critter
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None that I am aware of, but note that our focus has been on the perversion of the gravity knife statute, so not sure someone arrested for what should be a legal fixed blade would necessarily contact us.
<4" utilitarian drop point blade with a satin finish and a Cherrywood colored handle. It's a slip joint, so it can't lock, therefore it can't be a "gravity knife". Looks legal to me, just IMHO take off the pocket clip to avoid getting stopped by mistake.
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I really can't stand these bullshit tyrannical police state laws that every city is adopting. In Filthadelphia, the city closet to me, you can't even carry a folding knife, at all. Or any knife for that matter unless you're a contractor on a work site. It's a joke, if you have a folder clipped to your pocket and cops see it your in trouble. Such BS! When a government takes away your right to defend yourself let alone have a simple tool on your person then something is terribly wrong. I stay out of big cities at all costs. I have a LTCF and legally can carry my firearm into the city but not a damn folder? What a joke!
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I know MANY stores that sell Opinel knives here in NYC but I dont know how they would be treated if you were stopped with one.
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That's been part of the problem - people can walk into a store, buy a knife, and get stopped/arrested 3 blocks later. The issue was raised, but little was done to address the issue.
Also - cops in NYC DO use visible pocket clips as a rationale to stop/frisk.
Also - cops in NYC DO use visible pocket clips as a rationale to stop/frisk.
hhmore the visible clip is considered a violation of the NYC Admin Code 10-133 unless you are engaged in an activity that is listed. That does give the officer a legal right to stop and question you. The fact the clip is showing also prevents you from claiming an illegal search as the officer would be questioning what type of knife it is you have since he clearly see it is a knife.
I had an interesting half hour conversation yesterday with a NYPD Inspector ( he just retired a month ago and works with us now). He was a member of the NYPD for 33 years and held a rank that is five levels above a officer ( incase you don't know the ranking of the NYPD), and he teaches at John Jay College as a Criminal Justice instructor. He was surprised to see how many arrests were made were a law abiding person was taken into custody for the mere possession of a knife. When he was an officer that would never have happened, but that is part of the issue. The young number driven officers are making knife arrests that their superiors would never had made. I hope this article brings the real situation to the leaders of the NYPD in a way that makes them redirect when these arrests should be made. There was as a recent ruling on pot arrests that stopped a long standing method officers used to arrest offenders. Perhaps there can be some sort of hope now....Time will tell....
I had an interesting half hour conversation yesterday with a NYPD Inspector ( he just retired a month ago and works with us now). He was a member of the NYPD for 33 years and held a rank that is five levels above a officer ( incase you don't know the ranking of the NYPD), and he teaches at John Jay College as a Criminal Justice instructor. He was surprised to see how many arrests were made were a law abiding person was taken into custody for the mere possession of a knife. When he was an officer that would never have happened, but that is part of the issue. The young number driven officers are making knife arrests that their superiors would never had made. I hope this article brings the real situation to the leaders of the NYPD in a way that makes them redirect when these arrests should be made. There was as a recent ruling on pot arrests that stopped a long standing method officers used to arrest offenders. Perhaps there can be some sort of hope now....Time will tell....