Oak, Ash or Hickory?

Wait a minute. I was just about to step away from the bloody computer and get outside when it struck me that in Japan it's all oak for axes.
 
Japanese Oak actually.

But yes, there is a light colored J. Oak and a darker version. Though unlike white oak and red oak in North America, the darker oak in Japan is more highly valued especially for plane bodies.
European Oak is also of another order. I last picked some up at auction where it cost twice as much as American Oak. Japanese Oak is even nicer.

E. DB.
 
Interesting, any idea what species that would be? Or other names for it?
Trying to expand my knowledge of what's available for helves
 
Wow!! You guys have this down to a science.

The only hawk I own is a Two Hawks "Warbeast" and it is fire-hardened ash. Seems to be very nice.
 
I think this topic thread has evolved into an important hemispheric survey like I have not come across before, (with a couple of significant gaps up till now, I must add however) of axe handle woods. Important not generalize to early on though. That is to say, even though we know oak is common in Japan, for example, doesn't mean we can handle our axes similarly and expect good results, remembering that in Japan mostly very soft woods are used, cedar, pine, paulownia and cypress are a few. Also the Japanese have a physically very different grip and action when chopping and felling these woods, not to mention the form of the axes used.

E. DB.
 
Ernest DuBois said:
I think this topic thread has evolved into an important hemispheric survey like I have not come across before, (with a couple of significant gaps up till now, I must add however) of axe handle woods. Important not generalize to early on though. That is to say, even though we know oak is common in Japan, for example, doesn't mean we can handle our axes similarly and expect good results, remembering that in Japan mostly very soft woods are used, cedar, pine, paulownia and cypress are a few. Also the Japanese have a physically very different grip and action when chopping and felling these woods, not to mention the form of the axes used.

E. DB.
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Very astute post Ernest! I took also the liberty of highlighting some things for emphasis. I look forward to reading more of this thread.

Taking Japan again as an example of the possible differences in design, use and fauna, the "nata" would be your typical axe/hatchet -

yuuyuu-nata.jpg


sayanata165-1l.jpg


japanese-hatchet-1-492x600.jpg
 
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Test post. Bladeforums has been giving me problems for the last week...

I have a few paragraphs written up on this subject but cant post it right now...
 
Ernest DuBois said:
I think this topic thread has evolved into an important hemispheric survey like I have not come across before, (with a couple of significant gaps up till now, I must add however) of axe handle woods. Important not generalize to early on though. That is to say, even though we know oak is common in Japan, for example, doesn't mean we can handle our axes similarly and expect good results, remembering that in Japan mostly very soft woods are used, cedar, pine, paulownia and cypress are a few. Also the Japanese have a physically very different grip and action when chopping and felling these woods, not to mention the form of the axes used.

E. DB.
Click to expand...

Kesurokai did it before and they spawned both respect and awe for the inter-cultural discovery within the context of wood-working itself.

I was watching your hewing video and this one came to mind right away:
[video=youtube;ueIB0h4SzHc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueIB0h4SzHc[/video]
 
^ Yikes! Wow his technique/method certainly works for him but personally my toes suddenly felt mortally nervous. . .
 
Yew. Once the question of using a non-standard wood for a handle comes up I think you have to presume there is somewhere a reason it is not standard. My experience with yew is not much but I have found that it is hard, strong, very tightly structured and when it breaks it happens all at once and makes very sharp splinters. Maybe its reputation as the wood the English used to make long bows makes it seem also like a suitable wood for an axe handle but the two uses aren't equivalent, the long bow being very long and small in cross section. A ratio that means not much stress on the wood occurs in order to build up the required tension. I can imagine that yew wood in the form of an axe handle would tend to be brittle and subject to instant catastrophic failure without any warning before hand. Other woods can show signs of weakening before they come apart completely. It's just my initial assessment of yew wood.

These exchange spectacles may be good entertainment and I enjoyed following along, especially seeing the saws in action. For the participants also a lot of fun and probably full of meaningful contact. Once you start looking into the physical subject matter they quickly start to diverge and it becomes a matter of comparing apples to oranges.

E. DB.
 
I don't know if this purists mentality you harp on contributes to a decline in the quality of axe handle material of one particular kind or source. My guess is it does stand in the way of making informed and considered choices, which would be the best we should hope for.

E.DB.
 
Ernest DuBois said:
I don't know if this purists mentality you harp on contributes to a decline in the quality of axe handle material of one particular kind or source. My guess is it does stand in the way of making informed and considered choices, which would be the best we should hope for.

E.DB.
Click to expand...

I'm all for informed choices-- empirically speaking anyway. Most axe "users" (read; collectors) are anything but empirical. That doesn't just go for handle materials either, which seems to be only starting to come to light. Axes with thick faces are still identified as splitting axes. Thin axes are now for cutting resinous pine, because that's what Gransfors bruks says. Since I started following the fad of restoring axes in 2008, I haven't seen a huge increase in their use, just their acquisition. Thats a big, important prerequisite, but I'd still like to see it change. Because of that, actual constructive refinement of the body of knowledge surrounding them is pretty much stagnant. Thick axes are still splitting axes, just like in 2008.

Unless something changes radically, like a massive shift to people carving their own handles (and not just for axes), unless you can buy a handle of particular shape or material, I doubt there will be any serious traction in way of "defeating" the dogma, if you will. The only shift has been from people not caring at all, to caring only about things that are somewhat irrelevant, at least depending on the context. Especially given that most of these axes were never intended to be used seriously (at least by my standards, although the intent is likewise irrelevant in the long term role of these tools pulled from the scrap heaps of "progress").

Since I'm already biased towards not over cutting and generally exploiting any species of tree in general, the downward trend in quality of hickory stock just adds to the head shaking that I would be doing even if there were no such problems. I have absolutely no evidence to back that up, by the way. Just anecdotes.
 
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Know where I can find information on keeping a musclewood/ironwood handle from splitting as I shape it? This stuff seems to crack very quickly.
 
chuxwan said:
Know where I can find information on keeping a musclewood/ironwood handle from splitting as I shape it? This stuff seems to crack very quickly.
Click to expand...

If you are talking about checking, painting the ends with the bark still on for and leaving it for a while to dry a little bit to stabilize. Just until it can stabilize, not fully drying it. carving completely dry ironwood wouldn't be much fun I don't think.
 
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