Oak, Ash or Hickory?

Usually I will determine strength by leaning an end of a length of wood up on the chopping block and then jumping on it, that way I don't have to rely only on norms and standards that may or may not be relative to my specific circumstances. But fine, there is a point at which there is a need to get beyond broad generalizations about wood in order to make something meaningful out of the information. And this point about variations within species is something to have in mind concerning axe handles. Usually what I see from commercial handles as well as pictured here on this forum is a ring spacing indicating to slow a growth rate.


The range of uses for beech, birch, maple, oak ... could go on and be expanded but the conclusions to be drawn from doing it and how this applies to handling an axe don't seem so helpful - we don't keep our handles submerged in water. So, beech is used to make handles for tools, axes are tools and therefore beech can be used to make an axe handle. It's logical that when what might be called optimal handle woods, ash or hickory for example, aren't or were not available, than an alternative would be used, but the question is does this have much to say about what wood makes a good handle, other than that the right handle is from whatever wood you can get your hands on conveniently. I mean to say, this is true to a degree and I am all for making use of what is local and proven, that's one thing, but where in that scenario do you get information about characteristics of a good handle wood? Why is/was beech used? It was /is used in the face of a lack of an alternative. In the case of ash or hickory we refer to things like resilience, toughness, flex, shock absorption, positive features that for most people have a direct meaning or potential consequence.

E.DB.
 
Ernest DuBois said:
resilience, toughness, flex, shock absorption, positive features that for most people have a direct meaning or potential consequence.
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All of those traits are also connected to the thickness, or converse thinness, thickness to width ratio, etc. Making your own acceptable handles from whatever at hand should be a balancing between the traits of the woods and your needs and preferences. sometimes the two don't overlap, and compounded with general human incompetence, might give this theory of tool handles a bad reputation or sorts.
 
Your idea only holds up to a point, beyond which the inherent character of the wood determines appropriateness so, for example a maple handle of the aspects you require will break before one of ash, or conversely, because of the better qualities of the ash a more optimal handle can be fashioned. Taking into account all measure of human frailties, past, present and future, naturally.

E.DB.
 
Ernest DuBois said:
Your idea only holds up to a point, beyond which the inherent character of the wood determines appropriateness so, for example a maple handle of the aspects you require will break before one of ash, or conversely, because of the better qualities of the ash a more optimal handle can be fashioned. Taking into account all measure of human frailties, past, present and future, naturally.

E.DB.
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Two handles of a given dimension, made of different materials, will break with different amounts of force. Not contesting that. Why not use Maple for a handle that is going to be 4-6" shorter, slightly thicker, wider in the direction of force, and on a lighter head? Because its still weaker than a like handle of Ash? Eventually you arrive at a point of redundancy. a 1 3/4 pound axe does not need a handle that will stand up to a Hickory club when subjected to one of those hydraulic axe handle breakers that they use to test the poundage which a handle will break at, if I recall correctly. IT's a matter of settling between your needs and preferences, and the suitability of the material for what you need. People don't seem to like that approach, since natural materials are "at our mercy"-- its easier to just declare it "no good" for a given purpose without immersing in ideas and philosophy of empiricism.
 
Some people choose to heap their shit in one pile while some chose to fling it widely. In theory the former is said to lead to a more manageable situation but it could be it leads to unconscious behavioral automation. Still, given the two choices and the parameters outlined I will choose hickory if only because in order to avoid the stain of black splotches resulting from contact with moisture I will have to apply a finnish to a maple handle.

E.DB.
 
chuxwan said:
Which, on a larger scale, is the same reason that companies even exist to supply handles (along with most things) for us.
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"Making your own acceptable handles from whatever at hand should be a balancing between the traits of the woods and your needs and preferences. " Were the the exact words.

When not taken out of context (the rest of that sentence was pretty important), not really. Needs and preferences in the context of stacking functions and making use of what is available changes the crux of the sentence in question pretty radically. Balancing the traits of, say, a birch branch, with what you want to make out of it, an axe handle that will need to absorb shock, bend instead of break to a foreseen extent, and have enough material in the direction of force to be adequately durable (which also happens to produce a wide handle, that is thin from side to side, and relatively flat, which is the ideal shape anyway). I am not able to even wrap my head around the idea that its synonymous with manufacturing and consumerism. Probably stupid from all the axe handles I carve.
 
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Ernest DuBois said:
The range of uses for beech, birch, maple, oak ... could go on and be expanded but the conclusions to be drawn from doing it and how this applies to handling an axe don't seem so helpful - we don't keep our handles submerged in water. So, beech is used to make handles for tools, axes are tools and therefore beech can be used to make an axe handle. It's logical that when what might be called optimal handle woods, ash or hickory for example, aren't or were not available, than an alternative would be used, but the question is does this have much to say about what wood makes a good handle, other than that the right handle is from whatever wood you can get your hands on conveniently. I mean to say, this is true to a degree and I am all for making use of what is local and proven, that's one thing, but where in that scenario do you get information about characteristics of a good handle wood? Why is/was beech used? It was /is used in the face of a lack of an alternative. In the case of ash or hickory we refer to things like resilience, toughness, flex, shock absorption, positive features that for most people have a direct meaning or potential consequence.
E.DB.
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Ernest,
It is difficult to get a historically accurate answer, since there are not many historical records or representative enough archeological finds.
All what we can surmise is based on surviving and found examples and on recently documented trends, mostly from the 19th and 20th Centuries.

In Eastern and Southern Europe the use of beech is still offered commercially as axe and hammer handle wood, and this use is documented to have been in place even before the rapid industrialization during the communist era, so it is definitely not a very recent innovation.

In the same time multiple other woods were also documented being used at least in some places in that region, among them ash, oak, hornbeam, elm, and in the last 100 years or so the newly introduced black locust wood.
Since beech is one of the (and in some locales it is the) most abundant hardwoods there, and the less abundant oak and ash woods were preferred for other uses where beech was not suitable, it is likely that beech wood was chosen because of being an adequate enough choice.

Beech wood shows quite a variation within its European range, so it is also possible that the beech wood from those locales was stronger and tougher than the wood from more northernly places. Also, with being abundant, it is possible that the traditional makers could choose the most appropriate timber pieces for axe handles. I doubt that this is still the case though, I guess beech wood is processed randomly for handles nowadays.

Oak axe handles were and are rarer, and its rougher surface and tendency to splinter was considered a disadvantage compared to the smooth wearing surface the beech wood provides.

Finally, I am not advocating beechwood as the proper axe or hammer handle wood, I too think that hickory, or even European ash are much better choices.
The reason I mentioned it was only to add some regional info regarding the variety of wood used traditionally, and even nowadays in some regions.

I also would not be surprised if there were some Asian, or more likely South-American woods which are greatly superior to even hickory in that regard.
It is a pity we don’t have contributors to this thread from South America, and Brazil in particular, since their input would be really useful.
 
G-pig said:
"Making your own acceptable handles from whatever at hand should be a balancing between the traits of the woods and your needs and preferences. " Were the the exact words.

When not taken out of context (the rest of that sentence was pretty important), not really. Needs and preferences in the context of stacking functions and making use of what is available changes the crux of the sentence in question pretty radically. Balancing the traits of, say, a birch branch, with what you want to make out of it, an axe handle that will need to absorb shock, bend instead of break to a foreseen extent, and have enough material in the direction of force to be adequately durable (which also happens to produce a wide handle, that is thin from side to side, and relatively flat, which is the ideal shape anyway). I am not able to even wrap my head around the idea that its synonymous with manufacturing and consumerism. Probably stupid from all the axe handles I carve.
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I'm talking about the idea that a handle is even able to be purchased. What we need vs. what we want/prefer. It's a slippery slope. Once there's a market, there's competition. In a competitive market, relevance is limited to marketable things. If it can be simplified to say that TENNESSEE HICKORY is the best, your company better be equipping their axes with TENNESSEE HICKORY handles. Soon the knowledge of handle qualities and construction gives way to selling attributes.
 
Try apitong sometime. It's the most viciously splintering wood I've ever seen. It's all needles and daggers.
 
CedarEater said:
Something like a deck?
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Bing! Bing! Bing! Bing! Bing!

Winner!

Hardwood floor and staircase. Real tough stuff. They used to use it for the decks inside semi trailers. It's related to mahogany, but tougher, extremely abrasion resistant.
 
Excuse my ignorance but I gather from your other contributions on the forum you work for the forrest or parks department of something similar. So does the US govt. buy in wood harvested out of the tropics for it's outdoor maintenance work?

E.DB.
 
Hi, Ernest. I can't speak for the U.S. gov't but our local Department of Natural Resources generally uses locally available wood products, often times harvested and milled on site. If we're building something out of dimensional lumber we'll order it from a local lumber store and it will most likely be sourced from the U.S. or Canada. Trail structures built with large timbers are usually made of local material, harvested on site or at other nearby DNR lands. We also salvage storm falls when practical. For instance, we had a major ice storm last year and lost 1000's of trees locally. When they fell in accessible areas they were salvaged. We still have some good sized Douglas Fir stockpiled from that storm.

The two most important trees here in the Pacific Northwest are the Douglas Fir and Western Red Cedar, but Hemlock and Spruce are also used. Cedar is favored for wood that will be exposed to the elements because of its rot resistance. Doug Fir has excellent structural properties. Hemlock and Spruce are becoming more common as structural materials as the Doug Fir supply is being depleted. Poplar is now farmed for pulp products because of its very fast growth rate.
 
It has been a week or two since I've been busy with a froe made for me by the blacksmith in France and sent up. Well, he sent along a very fine handle of some ash wood, can't be exactly sure which ash but it is particularly suited for a handle. This work involves some very hard oak and it seems to be overtaxing even this good handle so I am already giving thought to measures for if the present handle doesn't see me through the work at hand and I remembered that the preferred wood for blacksmiths in France to put on the hammer is Cornus - the dogwood falls into this group. I have a short length drying up in the hay loft now I plan to put on a hammer but for this froe application it might also be a good choice. For a full sized axe, difficult, mostly because around here this wood grows as a shrub at best and in addition I understand it is very dense and heavy, maybe to much for swinging an axe all day long.

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E.DB.
 
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