Observations on The Shop talk Forum

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Alpha Knife Supply

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Are Forums becoming irrelevant, not just knife forums but in general?
I don't think forums are irrelevant. However, the relevance of BladeForums has slipped. Too many good knifemakers have been made to feel they are not welcome here in Shop Talk. The result is a smaller knowledge pool which attracts fewer knifemakers.

The primary focus of Custom & Handmade Knives subforum is forged knives and classic (Loveless) collectables. Knifemakers who do not work in these categories are ignored and go away.

These are two examples of why BladeForums is less significant than it used to be.

Here in Shop Talk there have been many discussions regarding marketing, pricing, financial success, etc. This last weekend there was a knife show in Las Vegas. Many successful knifemakers were there. The prices were amazing. Two examples of successful knife sales are a folder sold for $29,000. Another folder sold for $9,000. There are many other examples of knifemakers having excellent sales. None of the knifemakers post here.

I think forums should actively recruit successful knifemakers to post on the forums. If successful knifemakers actively post, other knifemakers and collectors will be attracted. There is much knowledge that could be gained. A knifemaker who sells a knife for $29,000 knows what they are doing. Why not ask them to participate?

The alternative is to keep this place the way it is and continue to have the same success.

Chuck
 
I don't think forums are irrelevant. However, the relevance of BladeForums has slipped. Too many good knifemakers have been made to feel they are not welcome here in Shop Talk. The result is a smaller knowledge pool which attracts fewer knifemakers.

The primary focus of Custom & Handmade Knives subforum is forged knives and classic (Loveless) collectables. Knifemakers who do not work in these categories are ignored and go away.

These are two examples of why BladeForums is less significant than it used to be.

Here in Shop Talk there have been many discussions regarding marketing, pricing, financial success, etc. This last weekend there was a knife show in Las Vegas. Many successful knifemakers were there. The prices were amazing. Two examples of successful knife sales are a folder sold for $29,000. Another folder sold for $9,000. There are many other examples of knifemakers having excellent sales. None of the knifemakers post here.

I think forums should actively recruit successful knifemakers to post on the forums. If successful knifemakers actively post, other knifemakers and collectors will be attracted. There is much knowledge that could be gained. A knifemaker who sells a knife for $29,000 knows what they are doing. Why not ask them to participate?

The alternative is to keep this place the way it is and continue to have the same success.

Chuck

I agree, that really sums up what I wanted to say. I really like the crowd here and consider Bladeforums my home too... this place is the best but we need to listen to feedback like this.

edit - I have always felt welcome here... but I do wish we attracted more top tier makers. Bladeforums is my home because of the great group we have here.
 
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Fortunately or unfortunately Chuck is Right! Few of the very top players ever post here Why?
Don't get me wrong there is a vast and talented group here but... Seldom if ever (Myself included) will you see a blade go for over 2-3K here
The people who are attracted by those blades probably don't hang here
 
Realize also that ALL manual trades and craft are experiencing a shortage of people willing to do the work others did before them. It isn't just knife making that is showing signs of slowing.
 
I enjoy the forum so for me it is relevant .. I don't have anything new or ground breaking to add to what has been said by other more knowledgeable folks. But I do think it may be watered down a bit from past years just by hitting the search engine when I have a specific question I normally find my answer from members who no longer participate here.

Between facebook and IG and other social networks there is a ton of activity , But if you need real knowledge about knifemaking between this forum and a few others forums cant be beat .

So as much as I agree with Chuck about older members not posting anymore . They are not coming back at least I don't think so. But there are a lot of knowledgeable folks still posting up good info . So hats off to them and thank you for taking the time to help out.
 
Irrelevant? No, not by a long-shot. Just being able to post longer discussions and easily find them in the archives is a huge advantage to learning. From a sales standpoint, Twitter and FaceBook etc. get 99% looky-lous's and attaboys... dedicated forums get a lot more people who actually buy quality knives.

If one wants to crank out half-vast mystery steel blades or slap rudimentary handles on factory blanks, flea markets and social media are probably the place to be. That stuff doesn't go over well on the forums at all... people here expect a lot more.

If you think there are problems with good and great makers being ignored here and on other forums, check out some of the user-groups on FaceBook and other social media. The level of half-truths and outright BS is so prevalent there it would be funny if it weren't true.

The top ABS MasterSmiths and guys selling $20K folders don't post here much because they simply don't need to... they don't need the exposure and they don't need the advice. It would be great to have them share their experience with us (and some do occasionally, out of the kindness of their heart), but I suspect they're busy making and selling $20K knives ;)
 
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Not irrelevant for those that repeatedly come back. It's a great source for info since you can search through years of Forum posts.
 
I don't think forums are irrelevant. However, the relevance of BladeForums has slipped. Too many good knifemakers have been made to feel they are not welcome here in Shop Talk. The result is a smaller knowledge pool which attracts fewer knifemakers.

The primary focus of Custom & Handmade Knives subforum is forged knives and classic (Loveless) collectables. Knifemakers who do not work in these categories are ignored and go away.

These are two examples of why BladeForums is less significant than it used to be.

Here in Shop Talk there have been many discussions regarding marketing, pricing, financial success, etc. This last weekend there was a knife show in Las Vegas. Many successful knifemakers were there. The prices were amazing. Two examples of successful knife sales are a folder sold for $29,000. Another folder sold for $9,000. There are many other examples of knifemakers having excellent sales. None of the knifemakers post here.

I think forums should actively recruit successful knifemakers to post on the forums. If successful knifemakers actively post, other knifemakers and collectors will be attracted. There is much knowledge that could be gained. A knifemaker who sells a knife for $29,000 knows what they are doing. Why not ask them to participate?

The alternative is to keep this place the way it is and continue to have the same success.

Chuck

Irrelevant.... No
Slipping .....No

I think James touched on a few good reasons why older established high dollar knifemakers don't post. Their busy focusing on their business and have little time for foruming, they don't need to advertise because in many instances, they are backlogged with orders.
Some may only choose to post where they themselves can control the content and swiftly delete negative input. In a forum such as shop talk, they can't do that and anyone talking BS, being manipulative or any of a myriad of poor behaviors is quickly called out.

I don't believe that anyone has been made to feel unwelcome here. The instances that I have seen have largely been the result of that persons own actions in, again, a myriad of poor behaviors. The forum doesn't ask much....be friendly and polite, follow the rules as posted. Pay for a membership if you wish to advertise. It is unfortunate that some knifemakers feel that their information and presence absolves them of the very things in place on these forums to keep them fair and peaceful. If only some knew just how many noted knifemakers have told me that their knowledge is of such caliber that Bladeforums should actually be paying them to participate!
I believe Stacy has done a quite admirable job in a forum and field with sometimes controversial topics and personalities. He's a pretty understanding, fair and smart fellow, who if anything if more lenient than he needs to be. If anyone is made to feel unwelcome by him, again it is largely a matter of their own doing.

As for the Custom & Handmade subforum. It is a funny animal, long frequented by a clique of posters/customers with a small area of interest. These posters seldom post outside of that forum. All knifemakers are welcome to post there and they need to bear my previous sentence in mind.
The way to change the dynamics of that subforum or even this one is participation. By their numbers alone, if knifemakers wanted that forum to be what it could and should be, their participation is necessary despite what a clique of resident posters with narrow interest may say... or not say.

As for reqruiting? I don't believe that is going to happen by Bladeforums. You either want to participate or you don't. You either want to properly participate or you don't. The Owner doesn't wish to reqruit and staff here is largely tied up in the day to day running of the forums with little spare time. Just as customers actively encourage manufacturers to participate, as knifemakers it is up to you to encourage your peers or those you admire to do so.

As I've stated many times previously. A forum is what it is, and is largely a product of what those that frequent and participate in it make of it.
 
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The top ABS MasterSmiths and guys selling $20K folders don't post here much because they simply don't need to... they don't need the exposure and they don't need the advice.
James, these knifemakers used to post here. It is not a matter of needing to post. They wanted to give back to their community.

I think James touched on a few good reasons why older established high dollar knifemakers don't post. Their busy focusing on their business and have little time for foruming, they don't need to advertise because in many instances, they are backlogged with orders.
Factually speaking, you are incorrect. The knifemakers used to post here on BladeForums. Why did they leave?

I don't believe that anyone has been made to feel unwelcome here. The instances that I have seen have largely been the result of that persons own actions in, again, a myriad of poor behaviors. The forum doesn't ask much....be friendly and polite, follow the rules as posted. Pay for a membership if you wish to advertise. It is unfortunate that some knifemakers feel that their information and presence absolves them of the very things in place on these forums to keep them fair and peaceful. If only some knew just how many noted knifemakers have told me that their knowledge is of such caliber that Bladeforums should actually be paying them to participate!

As for reqruiting? I don't believe that is going to happen by Bladeforums. You either want to participate or you don't. You either want to properly participate or you don't. The Owner doesn't wish to reqruit and staff here is largely tied up in the day to day running of the forums with little spare time. Just as customers actively encourage manufacturers to participate, as knifemakers it is up to you to encourage your peers or those you admire to do so.
I respectfully assert you are incorrect. I talk to knifemakers every day. I actively recruit knifemakers to participate on BladeForums. It is not a question of them wanting to participate. It is a question of their time. Is the time they expend on the forums worth the effort? In the past the time was worth the effort. Now it is not. Why?

I think BladeForums would benefit by gifting Knifemaker memberships to prominent successful knifemakers. These knifemakers are not posting to advertise. Karda wrote "they don't need to advertise because in many instances, they are backlogged with orders". He is absolutely correct. Why not ask them to participate in return they will not be asked to pay for membership? If they do participate, BladeForums benefit. If they don't participate, nothing is lost. What is the downside?

Chuck
 
James, these knifemakers used to post here. It is not a matter of needing to post. They wanted to give back to their community.

Factually speaking, you are incorrect. The knifemakers used to post here on BladeForums. Why did they leave?



I respectfully assert you are incorrect. I talk to knifemakers every day. I actively recruit knifemakers to participate on BladeForums. It is not a question of them wanting to participate. It is a question of their time. Is the time they expend on the forums worth the effort? In the past the time was worth the effort. Now it is not. Why?

I think BladeForums would benefit by gifting Knifemaker memberships to prominent successful knifemakers. These knifemakers are not posting to advertise. Karda wrote "they don't need to advertise because in many instances, they are backlogged with orders". He is absolutely correct. Why not ask them to participate in return they will not be asked to pay for membership? If they do participate, BladeForums benefit. If they don't participate, nothing is lost. What is the downside?

Chuck

A Myriad of reasons. To blanket statement "made to feel unwelcome here" is only stating one reason, and patently unfair to this site on it's face

Bladeforums does not require a membership to freely participate if ones sole purpose is to "give back to their community" by disseminating information and participate in that manner alone. The problem lies in that these same knifemakers wanted to do so while advertising their business without a knifemaker membership. When asked to cease advertising or purchase the knifemaker membership, they chose to leave. Is that their fault or Bladeforums fault?
The rules are quite succinct and clear, and have been taken advantage of for years by these same knifemakers. As I stated before, if they feel "unwelcome" it is largely a matter of their own doing. They are more than welcome to participate and do so within the stated guidelines and rules of this site.
It's not like many of these noted knifemaker are poor...so poor that they need to be "gifted" a membership. Quite the opposite. "gifted" membership will cause other problems and feelings may be hurt by this action. Others may feel that their contributions merit gifting and then we have a group of people who are reaping all the benefits others pay for, with nothing to help support operations of this site. If these knifemakers were truly interested and genuous in giving back, they could easily do so within the forums stated guidelines.
 
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Fortunately or unfortunately Chuck is Right! Few of the very top players ever post here Why?
.....

It would probably be unrealistic to expect people to buy $10,000-100,000+ art knives on the strength of just a couple of photos on a forum. These are usually sold at invitation only art-knife shows, or through direct sales with the maker. While we can entertain creating an Art Knife sub-forum to boost awareness, there are real limits of scale when it comes to shipping or paying for these pricey items; Paypal for instance has a maximum limit of $10,000 per transaction.

n2s
 
It's not like many of these noted knifemaker are poor...so poor that they need to be "gifted" a membership. Quite the opposite. "gifted" membership will cause other problem and feelings may be hurt by this action. It also does nothing help support operations of this site. If these knifemakers were truly interested and genuous in giving back, they could easily do so within the forums stated guidelines.
This is a simple business opportunity for BladeForums. The choice is to continue the downward trend toward irrelevance or try something new. To write "It also does nothing help support operations of this site" ignores the obvious:

• Increased forum participation = Increased paid memberships = Increased revenue

Chuck
 
It would probably be unrealistic to expect people to buy $10,000-100,000+ art knives on the strength of just a couple of photos on a forum. These are usually sold at invitation only art-knife shows, or through direct sales with the maker. While we can entertain creating an Art Knife sub-forum to boost awareness, there are real limits of scale when it comes to shipping or paying for these pricey items; Paypal for instance has a maximum limit of $10,000 per transaction.
The person who paid $29,000 for the knife was not at the show. He had only seen photos of the knife on a forum.

The show was open was open to the public.

If I had bought the knife, I would've paid via wire transfer. This is a problem I will probably never experience.

Chuck
 
This is a simple business opportunity for BladeForums. The choice is to continue the downward trend toward irrelevance or try something new. To write "It also does nothing help support operations of this site" ignores the obvious:

• Increased forum participation = Increased paid memberships = Increased revenue

Chuck

What downward trend? Even as stated in this thread, I and others are not seeing it....
As for the business opportunity? Along with those you stated there will also be increased problems.
If we are going to pay for participation by a select few, then I suppose I and many other moderators would also like to be paid for all the service we daily give freely on these forums.

As I previously stated if these knifemakers were sincere and genuous in giving back to the community, the opportunity is always there and they are welcome to participate within the forum rules.
 
What downward trend? Even as stated in this thread, I and others are not seeing it....
As for the business opportunity? Along with those you stated there will also be increased problems.
If we are going to pay for participation by a select few, then I suppose I and many other moderators would also like to be paid for all the service we daily give freely on these forums.

As I previously stated if these knifemakers were sincere and genuous in giving back to the community, the opportunity is always there and they are welcome to participate within the forum rules.
If you cannot see the downward trend, I cannot help you. Here are two criteria you could use to quantify the decline. View each criteria as the number of knifemakers who used to participate vs today:
• Knifemakers who win awards at major knife shows
• Knifemakers with factory collaborations

Every opportunity has potential problems. The question is, do the benefits outweigh the problems? In my opinion BladeForums will benefit.

BladeForums would not pay anyone. There is no money transfer. A very select few knifemakers would get free Knifemaker membership.

BTW, I get paid for my opinion. I'm stating my opinion for free because I want to give back to BladeForums. ;)

Chuck
 
There is no need, really, to bribe these knifemakers into being contributory. They either wish to give freely of their time and information, as many here do...or they don't. Sincere and honest giving needs no compensation or expects it.

There are still many notables here, ABS makers and those who've won awards of various kinds.

How is one to know that if these people are given a free membership that they will indeed make a point to contribute with their time and information when they've already made the decision not to?....for their own reasons as well as one you've stated.

IMHO, there are as many negatives as there are positives to your theory.
 
If you cannot see the downward trend, I cannot help you. Here are two criteria you could use to quantify the decline. View each criteria as the number of knifemakers who used to participate vs today:
...
Chuck

That has been primarily a factor of asking members to contribute to the site. A lot of knife makers were willing to pitch their products here when it was free but were unwilling to pay their membership fee, so they left. That is entirely their prerogative. But, I do not see why we should subsidize their business. This is not an easy medium to use. If you are unprepared to invest in communicating at length or unskilled at doing so effectively, then this is probably not the medium for you. We have had a few spectacular failures in the past. This isn't about spinning your product or earning an award from a magazine that you help to sponsor, it is about dealing with your competitors and your detractors, and perhaps the occasional troll, and doing so in a way that helps to earn you new customers.

n2s
 
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