Observations on The Shop talk Forum

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Karda said:
There is no need, really, to bribe these knifemakers into being contributory. They either wish to give freely of their time and information, as many here do...or they don't. Sincere and honest giving needs no compensation or expects it.

There are still many notables here, ABS makers and those who've won awards of various kinds.

How is one to know that if these people are given a free membership that they will indeed make a point to contribute with their time and information when they've already made the decision not to?....for their own reasons as well as one you've stated.

IMHO, there are as many negatives as there are positives to your theory.
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This is very disingenuous.
You don't want us to give freely of our time and information.

You in fact want us to pay to do so.

I no longer post here directly because of you, Karda, and your insistence upon this.

You, personally, have made it very difficult to help.

You live under the illusion that helping people here brings us huge benefit, and that we are only here to advertise ourselves.

Some of us just like to help!

I left this place a while ago over the nitpicking that you have done, combing through profiles and things, looking for excuses to hassle people.
My goodness, you answered the occupation question with "knifemaker", PAY US.
Oh no, there's a picture of something, used to illustrate a point, hosted elsewhere, and you sell things, PAY US.
People know that you are a knifemaker, so you are advertising, you greedy bastard, PAY US...
It's irrelevant that you do not take orders, make only what you want, and do NOT sell here, PAY US.
I don't care how much time, and effort you spend helping, with no real benefit other than the satisfaction of being helpful, PAY US.

It goes on, and grew tiresome.

There are many like me out there, that aren't here.
 
There is a saying among some of my best friends that one does not ever see the world as it is. They see it as they are. Every post after Chucks is off topic. Seriously derailed in fact! Start your own new topic you rude bastards is what I want say. But that would be rude so I'll just say I want to say that.

What I need to say as a Moderator on these forums since no one else wants to is that in my opinion you owe the OP (original poster) a apology for derailing his topic and have been warned. Get back to topic. Are forums going to become obsolete, a thing of the past not what is being discussed here!
 
STR, I apologize for aiding in the derailment.
I've been gone the better part of a year, show up because of emails, and step on my crank.

I shall disappear in to the shadows again!

To answer the original question, Yes, some forums are becoming irrelevant.
 
not2sharp said:
That has been primarily a factor of asking members to contribute to the site. A lot of knife makers were willing to pitch their products here when it was free but were unwilling to pay their membership fee, so they left. That is entirely their prerogative. But, I do not see why we should subsidize their business. This is not an easy medium to use. If you are unprepared to invest in communicating at length or unskilled at doing so effectively, then this is probably not the medium for you. We have had a few spectacular failures in the past. This isn't about spinning your product or earning an award from a magazine that you help to sponsor, it is about dealing with your competitors and your detractors, and perhaps the occasional troll, and doing so in a way that helps to earn you new customers.

n2s
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Have you noticed that, forums for manufacturers are free, but individual knife-makers have to pay



You would think that the large manufacturers would be in a better position to pay than a handmade maker.


There's something lopsided about that
 
Thread Split from "irrelevance" thread, so that both topics may be discussed.

Mr. Fellhoelter is one of those asked to remove his advertising or purchase a membership. It was explained that he may still participate as a registered user and be helpful as he wanted to be. It was his decision Folks, as stated in the myriad of previous threads on this very subject. The Rules are made by the owner. They have been in place for a very long time. The basic rules on membership and conduct have remained unchanged during the entire time. Each one of you agreed to them by registering.
 
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Come on man, I never said pay me.

I said don't charge me.
I am not advertising here, nor do I need or want to.
I just wanted to help.

Sure, I can post here, as long as I never mention that I make things, or post any pictures of them, even if they are just to illustrate a point.
Heaven help me if anyone realizes the information they are getting is not from a 16 year old barrista at the local coffee house.
If they figure that out, I am advertising, and must pay.
If I ever allude to the fact that I may have a clue as to the subject at hand, and may be a genuine help, I have to fear the all powerful wrath of Karda, since that is likely deemed as advertising, and taking advantage of poor old BladeForums.

I will indeed admit to the attitude though, you came across as a bully on a power trip, and I don't respond well to that.
I still get that vibe.

Hell, here you are telling folks that I wanted you to pay me.

That folks, is BS.
 
Fellhoelter said:
Come on man, I never said pay me.

I said don't charge me.
I am not advertising here, nor do I need or want to.
I just wanted to help.

Sure, I can post here, as long as I never mention that I make things, or post any pictures of them, even if they are just to illustrate a point.
Heaven help me if anyone realizes the information they are getting is not from a 16 year old barrista at the local coffee house.
If they figure that out, I am advertising, and must pay.
If I ever allude to the fact that I may have a clue as to the subject at hand, and may be a genuine help, I have to fear the all powerful wrath of Karda, since that is likely deemed as advertising, and taking advantage of poor old BladeForums.

I will indeed admit to the attitude though, you came across as a bully on a power trip, and I don't respond well to that.
I still get that vibe.

Hell, here you are telling folks that I wanted you to pay me.

That folks, is BS.
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This and your previous post is the exact type of attitude I was referring to.
You were treated nothing but cordially in our conversation, to which your response was to just ban you.
The issue was not one of your participation, but of your homepage and profile info, which you were asked to remove previously by another moderator.
 
12345678910 said:
Have you noticed that, forums for manufacturers are free, but individual knife-makers have to pay



You would think that the large manufacturers would be in a better position to pay than a handmade maker.



There's something lopsided about that
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I think you have a valid point here.

I also say from personal observation that there has been a bit of a temperature drop in how warmly knife makers and folks in general are treated since the 90's into early 2000's I was RHINOKNIVES back then and for some reason the older handle couldn't be used this time?

I left back then because there seemed to be an ever increasing amount of bickering here in general and it seems that more & more posters are just looking for someone, Maker or otherwise to say something they disagree or think is incorrect so they have a chance to pounce and be seen as RIGHT!
I've even caught myself starting to do this and said Whoa! I am getting caught up in this juvenile behavior. Unfortunately I see this trend happening again.

A young newbie, Freshfish or something like that joined last spring was insulted for his lack of knowledge and I posted for him to stay and not pay attention to the others that never learned any polite manners.

So, Chuck,
I see problems in more than just attracting and keeping knowledgeable makers. If we are aren't polite to new people no matter their level or pocket book, the whole board will and does suffer.

Also I just rejoined for a second return year at an over 20% increase. I'm a big boy and I made the decision to rejoin but if we want to increase the amount of makers here, "Not just the ones that sell $$$$$ knives. That's a bit of a jump!

I understand that you are not in charge of pricing etc.. My few thoughts here are just that! JMHO of some of the reasons of this decline you have mentioned.
 
Alpha Knife Supply said:
Two examples of successful knife sales are a folder sold for $29,000.Chuck
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Holy Cow did the maker launch himself into orbit and chip a piece of unobtainium off a passing asteroid to make the knife?? short of that, 29K is plain insanity, you know the old saying "there's a sucker born every minute" ;0)

This site seems just as relevant as ever, occasionally someone gets his nose bent, and predictably picks up his toys and goes home, such is life ;0)
 
Karda said:
This and your previous post is the exact type of attitude I was referring to.
You were treated nothing but cordially in our conversation, to which your response was to just ban you.
The issue was not one of your participation, but of your homepage and profile info, which you were asked to remove previously by another moderator.
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You sir, are a bully, and a liar.
Both bring out the attitude in me.

You can't expect to spit lies about a man in public, and not have him defend himself.

You have now lied about me wanting to be paid, and lied about how our paths ever crossed.

There was no homepage or any sort of pertinent information in my profile.
No sig line, no anything.
There was one line, filled in a blank, on the profile questionnaire.
Occupation.
Mine said knifemaker.
As it should.

It was there all along, other mods had picked through my profile before, and we got it all dialed in.
Everyone was happy.

Then a year or 2 later, you jump me over the stupid occupation, as if it is advertising.

And not a friendly "Hey buddy, we just noticed you are violating a rule, can you fix it" kind of way.
You came in hot.
A guy I had never even heard of before.
I have still never seen the rule stating that occupations should not be listed.
And I don't need to, I'm not the boss.

You can call it cordial all you want, it's passive aggressive BS.
Many may find that acceptable, I am not one of those.

The things you have posted here are just blatant lies.
I do not tolerate those.

But cordial, you've got that going for you...
 
I 100 percent agree with Chuck. I have seen it and heard it as I am sure he has up close and personal numerous times over the last 3 to 4 years. Better to listen and read his thought on the facts he has posted and then see what we can do to improve the situation. I will say again from personal experience that there are plenty of folks here that will spend cash on fine craftsmanship though at pretty much any level. When prices start going above 2k no matter what the audience becomes more limited.

Our goal should be to do what we can to create a comfortable place for anyone who enjoys sharing their knowledge and to succeed we all need to be open to valid problems and ways to solve them.
Gus
 
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If Chuck wishes to continue his observations, it is recommended he start his own thread.

Perhaps some good may indeed come of it, perhaps not. Who knows?
I'm sure Spark considered many things both in the set up of the rules and paid memberships.
 
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