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Off Shore???

Rocinante

Rocinante

Banned
Joined
Jul 30, 2005
Messages
1,014
I guess "Off Shore" is the euphemized way of saying that a knife was made in China.

Or is it used to describe all knives made outside the U.S.?

Seems like I never heard it used to describe knives made, for example, in Seki, Japan.

Maybe because Seki has such a great reputation for excellence in knifemaking.

Here's a marketing suggestion. Don't just stamp China on a knife.

Instead, stamp the name of the city AND China and tell us about the history of the knives produced in that city both on the Buck website and the papers that come with the knife.

Tell us about the steel, where it comes from and the testing done.

Tell us about the people who make the knives.

To me, the only problem with Buck knives made in China is that they are so mysterious......and maybe there IS some information somewhere--but I haven't ever seen any.
 
I wasn't exactly sure what to call it and thought "offshore" was a good term. Maybe not :confused:

The 751 is actually made in Taiwan. I assume the China stamped Bucks are made on the Chinese mainland.
 
Actually, I wasn't referring to your post. You just gave me the idea. I see the term 'Off Shore' used a lot. I'm not always sure what is meant, but it usually seems to mean China (only they don't want to say China).

No, you just started me thinking about that term and how it relates to the 'careful' way that manufacturers and others use it.

I think it's time for some candor from manufacturers on the issue--they should tell us all about a knife if they expect us to buy it and I think the more knowledge buyers have......the more they will buy.

Here's a knife made in China......but where in China and by whom? Is there a history to the factory? Where does the steel come from and how is it processed?







Be nice if we knew more about them.

Oh yeah, this one cost $16.25 on-line.
 
Usually the term is used to describe a knife not made in the US. But I don't recall seeing that term used when we had some 300 series knives assembled in Mexico years ago.
You idea of having more info on "where" in China is is very interesting. I'm not sure where that explanation would be but it seems like it would be welcome information. Especially when it refers to the quality of the knife.
 
Reminds me of an article last year in one of the motorcycle magazines on the new HJC helmet factory in China. The article dicussed the helmets, production line, quality control and gave some background on a few employees. I had just purchased a HJC helmet a few weeks before reading the article (made in that factory, coincidentally) so it meant a lot to me to learn more about the factory and workers.
 
I would be surprised in the "where" in China would work, it assumes there exists a history that may not exist and may apt to change at anytime.
 
For some time now I have been working on developing the histories/provenance of Buck Special Project knives. For a variety of reasons I have come to believe that only a small portion of the Buck knife purchasers appreciate knowing the background on their knives. I think the only way to get the Buck company to document the histories at the time of development is to demand that type of information or drive Joe crazy by asking for it. If you want this type of information please get together with the other Buck customers and make some noise about it. If you are successful it will make my life a lot easier as I try to document the histories.
 
Well, are they not Buck knives--designed by Buck and made to Buck specifications?

Are they not tested by Buck to see that they meet the high standards that we expect in a knife bearing that name?

Steel is steel. It can be better or worse in ANY country--it just depends on the standard set by the customer and verified by the tests of that customer.

Joe Houser.....I think we need some no nonsense information. Jump in here.
 
Well, maybe we need Buck to tell us where the steel comes from and what the tests show.

If their tests show that it performs excellently--clearly it's excellent steel--whether it comes from Indiana or China or Timbuktu.

As far as costs go, the knives can be made to 'High Standards' as you say, and be sold for a good profit because the labor costs in China are probably 20 times cheaper.

That's the reason we get knives from China......that's what 'Off Shore' is all about--no matter what the product--it's all about labor cost.
 
I'm pretty sure you're right......although at this point, they'd be a bargain even with a pretty substantial pay hike.....and they have already improved their standard of living over what it was before they got a factory job.

Whadd'ya gonna do? It's facts of life.

But.....I do believe the Buck tradition of factory tours should be extended to China for sure so we can see the people who make the knives.
 
Well......SOMEBODY would go, that's for sure......maybe some really RICH knife knuts.

:D

Oh, and Buck has been there.....how could they not? How could a company that so openly talks about their "Senior Partner" fail to make sure their knives were not being made in a "sweat shop?"

I'm sure that working conditions were one of the items high on their list in their choice of a factory.
 
i have avoided commenting on this thread as long as i can
i jest dont understand i guess
some times you realy jest dont need to know...
 
some times you realy jest dont want to know...
Click to expand...

Hmmmm......now that seems to sum the whole thing up perfectly, doesn't it? Seems like there's a lot of ignoring going on.

But I happen to be one who wants to know.

If I buy a knife, I'd like to see the factory.....I can see pictures of the Idaho facility right on my computer.

But the Chinese facility is like.......top secret?

This is a part of Buck history. Maybe a huge part--a turning point. No reason to pretend it's not there.

A knife is the most personal tool that exists.....it's almost a part of the user and the user strongly identifies with the knife--wants to be proud of it.

Therefore, I'd like to see the makers at work.

And steel is steel.....if you demand a certain standard and test it to see if the steel meets your high standard--that steel could come from anywhere.

That's the last I'll say about that, I think it's clear and logical.

Dave, I have a couple questions. I want to understand what you said, after all, you did go to the trouble of making a fairly lengthy post.

You said:

buck paid a high price to import price point knives
they can no longer advertise that the high end knives are made in the USA
they can not say in the paper work with knives that they produce knives in the usa they can not even say they make knives in the usa at idaho!
Click to expand...

Can you explain that? Why can't they say it? The high end knives are made in the U.S. right? Are you saying they are not?

Another thing:

to me some ones desire to know more of off shore prodction is easly done by looking that contry up on the internet and reading of them and the citys and manf there...
Click to expand...

I can do that. But I still would not have seen the Buck factory. In fact, I would still know NOTHING about that factory. So what do you mean?

Thanks.
 
Rocinante
Keep in mind that this is a communist country you are talking about. They have never been forthcoming with the kind of information you say you want and I doubt that they ever will be. You asked if the factory was a secret. Well, from their point of view, as far as you are concerned, it is. It is not Buck keeping the secret. It is the Chinese. They don’t care at all about your desire for history. They don’t think it is relevant. There is no Buck factory in China. There is a factory where Bucks are made in China, big difference. It is not a private enterprise. It is a state owned facility and they don’t care what you want. They are just interested in grinding out the knives.
 
WilltheBarb said:
Keep in mind that this is a communist country you are talking about. They have never been forthcoming with the kind of information you say you want and I doubt that they ever will be.
Click to expand...

What a pile of nonsense :yawn: People have been enquiring about production, materials and so on of Spyderco Byrd line and Sal was happy to provide the details. I believe that's what convinced more people to try those "chinese" knives, to their satisfaction as they found out (heck, first person plural, myself included).

How is this any different from Byrd line of products ? FUD spread by the lieks of you is what deters people from purchasing blades that are perfectly fine and avaliable at lower price. I too think that sharing information that is not considered to be trade secret is good for business.
 
I didn’t say the knives weren’t fine knives. I own a bunch of Chinese Bucks and have attested to their quantity numerous times. the lieks of me doesn’t see your point. What does Spyderco have to do with it?
 
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