Off Topic 4th of July Rant

Unfortunately too many Americans are like the German Jewish population of the 1930's - their "rights" kept getting trampled on and they kept thinking it couldn't get any worse - until one day it was just too late....

As Ed noted the Patriot Act and similar legislation is only the most recent "reasonable" legislation designated as being for the "good of the people" (one only needs to read about that farce of a campaign finance law - the McCain-Feingold act which blatantly limits OUR Constitutional rights of free speech yet was upheld by the Supreme Court - because "something needed to be done"). The un-winnable drug war has allowed/caused many very bad pieces of legislation to get passed. Laws that on the outside "appear" to keep us safe and especially keep our children safe - laws which pander to those who think that our children should be taught about "alternative life styles", have condoms freely given to them without knowledge of their parents, ad infinitum - yet those same people believe that a "child" shooting a firearm or having a knife is not only abhorrent but morally reprehensible and should therefore be made illegal.

It is noteworthy that many if not most of those currently in office believe they know what is "right" for the great unwashed masses and that is exactly how they view those not of their "class". And anyone who thinks the USA is a classless society needs to open their eyes.....

I'm much like fitzo in my attitude - live and let live pretty much, but every one should be personally responsible for their actions. A greater man than I once called this ideal rational anarchy......Unfortunately it is just that - an - ideal because seemingly most humans prefer being "taken care of" rather than taking care of themselves
 
Yes, I live out on a farm,,far from other people,,,thats the way I like it...But I also dont think we have seen much of any changes for any of us normal people whereever we might live.

Now I do understand that because this trouble started with some Arab guys who used box cutters and airplanes, that our goverment will be working to make that harder for them to try this again next time. So i do expect that in the future I might have to stand in a longer line at the airport, or perhaps going into see a ball game....but thats about all I can point to as haveing even slightly changed after 9/11.

I dont see any danger here to my freedoms at all,,not even close....I dont see any reasons for some people to get so upset over things that have changed so very little for any of us at all.

I wake up, drive into town to work, come home , watch TV, have some dinner and turn in. Thats what i do now, thats what i did before, Nothing has really changed for any of us changed has it?

Now if we are talking about some Arab guy who always liked to take box cutters on airplanes just for the fun of it...., well,,,then I could see that his lifestyle had changed after 9/11.....

But I dont have a problem with that...
 
I'm much like fitzo in my attitude - live and let live pretty much, but every one should be personally responsible for their actions. A greater man than I once called this ideal rational anarchy......Unfortunately it is just that - an - ideal because seemingly most humans prefer being "taken care of" rather than taking care of themselves

Well said Chuck. I'm pretty much in the same boat as you and Fitzo, I don't like anyone telling me how to live so as long as it doesn't infring on me I'm not going to tell anyone else how to live.

That said I work off shore and just recently they've went to a "anti terror" plan. This plan lacks a lot of sense, bomb searches(no EOD on board), locking ourselves in the machinery spaces(right near the welder's shop and oxy/acetalyn torch) and driller's shack(it's got huge plexyglass windows) and then theres the idea that the terrorist won't be armed due to random bag searches(sorry but it'd be to easy to smuggle weopons onboard and there's to much iron to pic up and use as a weopon for terrorist to even think of coming onboard un-armed). Then again with only 140 people on board it's not a likly target, although it is almost indefensable. It's even worse on a Shell rig working the gulf, they get everything short of a strip search befor even loading the helo to fly out to the rig, so they cant injure the pilot,and they forbid you to carry a knife on the helo also. If anyones ever had helicopter water survival you know that a knife in a crash could come in handy for say seatbelts, some idiot panics and inflates the life raft inside the cabin or even his life vest. What are they supossed to do chew throught the stuff? If they start doing that on this rig I'll be looking for anouther job because I will not voluntarily put up with that crap.

I guess it all comes down to me believing in the right to protect my own damn self and not big brother's responsibility.

I will say this, I am in total agreament about the vote, no matter what you believe, say it with the vote-it's your most bassic right, use it or lose it.
 
DaQo'Tah,

Well, I'd say that if you happened to be an innocent Arab-American with as many generations of family as US citizens as the average family in this country, and you got yanked out of a line in an airport and grilled by the FBI because you fit a profile they have established you'd feel a bit different.

Or, worse yet, you worked and bowled with an Arab-American guy who happened in the mosque to innocently talk to someone on the "watch list", and then they decided to grill your arse, or wiretap you, because you "knew someone who knew someone", then you might feel a little different about that, too.

Or, how about the people who work in the highrises in Chicago that have to get to work an hour early to go through the post-9/11 metal detectors every day, and had their friggin fork confiscated out of their lunch bcause of some idiot security guard? Think they'd feel like you?

Or, how about being an Oregon lawyer who goes through hell because the FBI made a mistake identifying his fingerprints?

Or because you forgot a firecracker in your luggage from last July 4th, and now they find it in the airport and the next thing you've got some guys hand up yer butt looking around?

I could continue, but that's enough to make my point.

I hate to say this, but I think you speak from a very nicely insulated cozy little part of middle-America that hasn't got a clue about what's really gone on. It's the kind of "ignorance is bliss" that lets things erode further because "we like it that way".
 
I got to thinking about this thread and almost forgot, the 4th of July is a traditional day for target shooting, all day!! I did get to shoot about 100 rounds through my Old Army 45 Colt, each round I give thanks for being able to shoot just outside of my shop as long or as much as I want. Then come thoughts of injustice to others in the name of the common good and I find the bullseye easier to hit.

Don't get me wrong, I intend no violence to our government, city, county, state or federal. I have, do and will continue to write letters to the editor voicing my thoughts and when necessary fight through an attorney. I send funds to help others who face oprression to legally fight in court. I also support the NRA, AKTI and the Second Amendment Foundation. I have absolutely no use for bad cops.

One time while on my way to a knife show I got stopped by a city cop because my vehicle fit the profile of drug smugglers. (A black 1969 Pontiac Grand Prix Mod. J) He stated that I ran a stop sign, I told him he was wrong.
Soon there were many cop cars around me wanting permission to search my vehicle. I said NO you cannot search. I had nothing to hide, but absolutely declined to waive my rights. They fed me more bull than I could believe, finally I told them I had been a cop, knew my rights and had heard enough, I requested that they either arrest me or release me. They backed off, this was but a taste of what many 'free men" taste all across the nation.

When we read about injustice it is easy to shrug our shoulders and go on to the next story. Those who care work at preserving freedom. Wild Rose hit the nail on the head about pre war Germany. If you want to read the real story, Eric Fromm's "Excape From Freedom" is a real classic.
 
But Im not an arab guy,,I dont work with an arab guy, and I dont even know any arab guys...

However I do expect that the arab guys do need to expect that due to the fact that we are at WAR, that some people from time to time might need to be pulled aside and asked a few questions, and have their pockets turned out.

I dont have a problem with this.

Hey, we had a young girl get killed here last year, and the hunt to find her body was a big deal here, I had no problem when the cops did a search of all the land that was sitting next to the highway. I had no problem when they searched the ditches on my land...I expect the goverment to provide for the common defence.

I do understand, and in fact I expect that due to the concerns we all have, that we will all have to face a longer line from now on at whatever we might be going to see.

If Im going to one day fly on an airplane, yes, I expect to have to waite in a long line, thats just the way it is...

I dont work in a high tall building, so I have no idea what they face, but due to the fact that this war delt with such a building, I might guess that from time to time the people that run such buildings talk to everyone about the dangers and what to do.

But I dont see many buildings being taken down just incase..

I dont really care that some lawyer had a hard time due to a fingerprint switch...in fact thats fine with me, toss the whole lot in jail for that matter.LOL

I expect that if I left a firecracker in my bag, that the airport testers will find it, as they should, I like hearing that even a left over firecracker sets off the alarm, that means the darn thing works!

so I dont have a problem with that...

Like I said before, if any can point to some place where us normal Americans have been effected in a bad way by the different laws that were passed after 9/11, let me know. Cuz I sure dont see any way i have had my life changed at all...

And I dont think people should look down on us who live out here in the country. You might call my life drowned in an "ignorance', but I believe that I am still able to see the difference between what is and is not real.

I dont see the dangerousness of any laws passed after 9/11 at all. I see no changes to my life, I dont see any changes to anyone's life at all, that could be said to have been harmfull.

I understand that a few people here and there have done something, or were at the right place at the wrong time, but for the most part, that kind of stuff happend in the world long before 9/11 so we really cant say that it got worse can we?




.

.
 
No, DaQo'Tah, in this world of instant communication, I doubt anyone looks down on someone simply because they live in the countryside. Ignorance is not limited geographically. I was speaking more of a mentality than a location. My Pa was a farm boy, but,man alive, he didn't think like you thank God.

I'm not even gonna bother answering you anymore. Suffice it to say people like you scare me that some day there may be enough of you of like mind to "have it your way" and I might still be alive.
 
When I was a child, I used to think something was under the bed that might grab my legs, so I would jump the last few feet.

But when the child became older, he got down on his hands and knees and looked to see if anything was there or not.

Perhaps it is true that it was more fun to believe that evil lurked in the dark hidden places...

Perhaps it is true that being limited to the truth, that I lack much of an interesting story to tell others in the dark...

but its also better not haveing to fix the bedframe all the time from jumping on it.
 
The law of the land have changed, and the government's power has basically exceeded the limitations originally put there by the founders.

Just because you have not been affected by these changes, doesn't mean that they aren't affecting someone else. Excessive governmental powers means that certain abuses are no longer defined as abuses.

In fact, if you ever start feeling the heat in the "quiet" countryside, then the large urban cities would be smoking ruins and it would be too late for many of us.

Laws have a way of snowballing once you let a few unjust ones through.

"Legal Precident" is the necessary catalyst to make things really bad.
 
DaQo'Tah you're scaring the living [self censored] out of me! If someone like you, who seems to otherwise appreciate the freedom we have in this country can believe what you do, we are in a world of hurt.

I don't think you realize how much your life has changed. Every email you send gets parsed by the government's machine; use the wrong word in the wrong context and one day you'll find the FBI walking out of your house with everything they want. They won't knock and they won't need a warrant. And because you make "weapons" you might just be joining them. Don't think the government won't twist your words and possessions to make their case; careers depend on arrests. Oh, and they won't have to give you access to an attorney or even charge you with a crime.

Check the wrong book out of the library, or order from the wrong bookseller, and you'll find yourself permanently on a long list of dangerous persons; try getting on a plane then. You don't have to do anything wrong; just be curious, exercising your First Amendment.

Once you said you couldn't imagine living where you would wish to keep a loaded weapon for self defense. Lucky you. You should live in my city, where bands of criminals just kick in the door, tie everyone up, beat them until they're mush, have a little recreational rape, walk out with anything pawnable, and maybe not kill everyone one the way out the door... This is not only routine in every city in America, it happens right here in the Midwest with alarming regularity. Happened a few blocks from my house within the last year, and in several other homes in my metro area. No police came to anyone's aid; and they have never arrested anyone for these crimes.

But write a critical letter to the administration and see how long it takes for your life to change.

We're living in a country where murderers get out of jail in 5 or 6 years but someone caught in his home with a couple ounces of pot will lose his home and everything else he owns, and thanks to mandatory sentencing live the next 25+ years in prison.

Here's a local example. A guy kills his girlfriend in a drunken argument. He'd kicked her around so thoroughly her skull was crushed; one of her eyes was dangling from her face and some of her brains were stuck to the living room wall. My wife was lucky enough to be on the ambulance that eventually came to the scene; she's seen a lot but that one got to her. A few years later we're having a quiet game of pool at the local watering hole and guess who comes walking in the back door; Mr Family Man. His overheard conversation during that evening suggested he was rather unchanged.

Another guy gets caught stealing the equivalent of 5 gallons of anhydrous ammonia from a local farmer. Loses his home and everything he owns, and gets to spend the next 45 years in prison. I'm not saying this guy is not a criminal; but he'd never raped or killed anyone. Something seems to have gotten skewed here.

What does this have to do with the more recent erosion of American freedoms "guaranteed" by the Constitution? Directly, not much. But it should illustrate that too many Americans would rather give up a rational, just legal system for short term comfort than insist on the rights our forefathers sacrificed their lives for. Perhaps you forget that those who led our fight for independence from a tyranical government were traitors; traitors who paid with their lives and the lives of their families so you could sit feeling safe and untouched in your imaginary world, confident your own government would never trample your (imaginary) rights.

You're dreaming.

And you're ready to give up anyone who's not like you.

You say your life hasn't changed because you still live your everyday schedule untouched. How nice for you. My everyday schedule has been untouched too. But that doesn't mean I don't care that American citizens are being imprisoned indefinately without due process, without access to an attorney, without trial. It's because of people like you, who think that just because they're not criminals that their lives will never change, that everything's just a-okay; it's because of way too many people like you that this country can evolve the way it has.

For the sake of your family I hope that your nice little dream continues; but for thousands of other American citizens it's all over, and for no better reason than that they said the wrong thing at the wrong time, or had the wrong friends, or read the wrong books, or chose the wrong religion. All of which by the way, used to be guaranteed by the Constitution bought so dearly by heros who believed in something.

You'll forgive me if I don't join you in your comfortable surrender.
 
DaQo'tah....I think the issue now is about personal preference, not restriction of freedoms or Government intrusion into our lives.

I have a very large Airedale. I have about 5 acres fenced in for him to run freely in. He is happy with his world and I'm sure he feels free and wild.

I wouldn't!

If you are happy living within the confines of something that I consider unbearable, I'm glad for you. I simply can't accept the limitations of that fence.

Fitzo put it pretty well. As long as I don't bother anyone, I expect to not be bothered.
 
DaQo'tah - I could give you a long list of everyday people whose lives have been impacted negatively by our "Guv'Mints" intervention - but from reading your above posts I would probably just be wasting air.
The great thing about the USA and it's Constitution (which unfortunately has been bastardized by many for their own benefit) is that folks here in the US do get to have different points of views and do get to express them...for now at least.
Realize though it is not just the Guv'mint but many, many others (Michael Moore, the Hollywood elite, the "liberal" literati) who would like to stifle your voice if it does not fit their pattern of "correct" thinking. No today you and yours may not be directly affected, but it is coming unless we stop it. Having grown up and attended school during the height of the Vietnam War protests I am only too aware of how many of the powers that be were either members of such elitist, neo-socialist groups as the SDS and others of that ilk and these folks had VERY scary ideas of what the world should be like.

DaQo'tah....you have the right to your point of view and I am not slinging mud here but some of your statements remind me of the people of the former Soviet Union who protested the breakup of that Union because their life hadn't been so bad.
And since it is the 4th it also reminds me that in 1776 there were many Colonials who felt exactly that way about the British Government, a tax on tea wasn't really that bad, not having representation didn't have a direct impact on their life so what did it matter, etc. I wonder how many folks truly realize what many of those original Patriots gave up in order to have the personal freedoms that they have passed down - and how many of those such as the Adams brothers, Patrick Henry, would more than likely be in prison under todays "Patriot" act because they were preaching sedition and possible "terrorism".
Don't get me wrong - things did need to change after 9/11, but what needed to change was things like the internecine bickering and one upsmanship of our "security" agencies. But please realize that taking away rights will not "solve" the problem. A perfect example of how even the most stringent law enforcement cannot prevent terrorism is Northern Ireland - read the history and realize that even with armed military troops roaming the streets that anytime someone on either side wants to set off a bomb it has happened.

One last thing - in the mid 1980's a question was asked to a large group of the US Marine Corps and another large group of Policemen - the question was if you were ordered to got to the homes of otherwise law abiding citizens and confiscate any and all firearms would you obey that order? The overwhelming answer was yes they would and most would have no qualms in using violence to enforce that law. That scared the bejeebers out of me then and still does today.
 
Peter....thats the deal, I dont know of any fence.

I dont see any fence, I dont know anyone who has said anything about running into any fences.

Now I admit, that there are a bunch of book writers in this country that have always hated the goverment anyway. Such guys have latched onto the events of 9/11 in order to support their own points of view.

But I have never much had a problem with the goverment. I have not seen Black helocopters landing in my fields and troops running into my basement to take my dad's guns away. I have asked my friends, they have never noticed any of their guns missing as well....

Now Im listening...Im not so blind or foolish that I would not hear a man out about what problems he has run into with the new goverment laws that got passed after 9/11.

But so far, I have not seen any of the people I know talk about a freedom that we have and enjoy being taken away. I have the same life now as I did before 9/11. I make knives the same way, I dont have any problems starting a fire in my forge. Things seem about the same for my knifemaking here.

as far as being on the computer?...well...I still talk to people here about the same stuff. I ask the great makers about the same types of questions. I have noticed no change in the way people address me on line. If anyone can point out something that I have overlooked?...great, Im looking for someone to do that, but so far....?..I have yet to read about a normal "right" that I enjoyed before 9/11 haveing been taken away after 9/11.

I do notice the longer lines at the airports on TV. I expect this to be true should I wish to fly this winter, but after all, airplanes are a big part of the WAR we are in now. It is only fitting that my goverment work to make crashing a plane into stuff a bit harder for some guys with just box cutters.


Now are far as my views about keeping a loaded gun...

I believe that topic came up a while ago , and I told everyone that I thought a co-worker of mine was a bit foolish to allow his small child to sit all day in a small pick-up truck with an uncased loaded huge gun tucked under the seat, piled under old McDonalds bags and pop cans...

I still believe this...

I also believe that due to my kids, that it would be foolish of me to keep a loaded hand gun , uncased, and sitting under the bed.

I still believe this...

Yes a dad should teach his kids to always respect any gun,,,But I also think that as a dad, I should respect the fact that "Boys will be boys"....

and that in this world, very bad things can be done by very good children, even by accident....
 
wild...

I am always interested in your views,,,I gladly read anything you have to say on this or any other matter.

But I also feel free to ask you and the others a few questions as well. When I read some comments on this topic , it's like some guys think "We are doomed"......
Well...before I join in that song, I just would like to see some small sign that my freedoms pre-9/11 are changed from the freedoms I enjoy post-9/11

So far I have not noticed much all that different,,,have you?

I have not noticed any change in my life, nor in the lives of the other people I know...

I live near the border with Canada, and from time to time we do read about some changes with the border patrol as they work to make sneeking into our country a bit harder to do...

But, I dont much care about guys from Canada haveing to sit for an extra 5 min in line.......
 
I've had a concealed (weapons) (now called a concealed hand gun permit)
for well over 15 years. I renew the permit every time it needs to be, to be on the side of the law, and I carry every day, mainly because I can,
I can use a baseball bat with more damage..and many more devastating blows
then the little 25 cal I carry, of course I'd look a little out of place
carrying a bat around all the time.

if you don't knock on my door and you come in uninvited your life is in my hands, I didn't serve to have my rights property taken from me. I seved to protect and it don't stop there
I will protect what's mine, if I go to jail protecting my famaily so be it.

God says, obey your government laws as long as you do not break his laws.

well we should not brake Gods laws and should understand them,,
and with the government laws,, we have full control over the gov
it is Us as in United States (us) we have the say we are the Government
we just need to voice it by vote.
we placed it there we can remove it, or who we don't like in there BY VOTing the good book also says we can not Govern our selves
with out him tell me he's wrong...and I'll tell you, you haven't read the book.. and understood it.
I'm not a religious nut but I can read the writing on the wall.
we have problems..
government works best in black and white
it's the in-between stuff that gets fricked up, and causes more red tape
and laws to try to sort it out.
being lead by someone like Clinton
that doesn't mind his enjoyments from the mouth of an intern on our dime
or
condones going to Canada to evade the draft,there's a problem
with the voters to allow this to happen in the first place there's
too much trust in the Bozzo's to let loose in there.
the writing was on the wall and in the history books, on the news , so what's up with that???
money is what's up with that,,,,I can't run for office, the law says I have to
have enough money so it won't look like I'm running just for the money.. :confused:
isn't there something wrong with that? :eek:
now we have to vote for the best of two evils,
now it's not just the sugar coatings now we have Cachup for the coatings :footinmou
we did this to ourselves, did you know, if you call your governors concerning an issue you
effectively cast 100 votes...
that means only one in a 100 will care enough to call.

Roger,thanks for the mention in Steves case,
case and point just a little noise can make a big difference,
It don't have to stop there..
think about it the other boneheads that want to erode this country will be
there voting ,, be sure of that.
hey,how do you feel about gay marriages Guys now
in mass? how in the hell did that happen?? were all the voters on vacation in Maine that day..?
first they get religion twisted to fit, then kicked out of our
schools then placing gay lovers in our
government representing us.. :barf:
be afraid guys be very afraid.. we did this..if our kids
have nothing to fear in a possible after life they have not one thing to look forward to, we can not govern our selves with out the help of the one that put us here,
read the writing on the wall. I got to stop...I'm turning into a ranting preacher or something. :rolleyes:
vote,make some noise call with your concerns
the one you put in government are there to lessen to YOU, if they don't get them out now... :grumpy:
 
DaQo'tah I agree with you about children having access to loaded weapons, though I grew up in a home where the weapons were loaded and we were taught as soon as we could stand how to respect them. No one was ever harmed in our home; we knew what weapons were for and what they'd do if misused. Even so, I do take precautions in our own home.

Maybe you don't personally know any of the Americans who have been imprisoned and denied access to an attorney or a trial; I don't know them either, but they are real people. They are American citizens who formerly had "the right to a speedy and public trial" that has been taken from them. That right has been taken from you too, you simply have not been impacted by it. So far.

A bunch of local attorneys and law students staged a demonstration against the war in Iraq a few months ago. Ashcroft's merry band attempted to indict them but were soundly slapped down by national outrage. Thank God there are still some people in this country who will stand up for their Constitutional "right of the people peaceably to assemble."

I never in my life would have believed that I would live in a police state but that's increasingly what we have. This scares the bejeezus out of me, and it offends me deeply. I honestly don't know whether they'd have to "pry my gun out of my cold dead fingers." But I am certain that I would give my life in an attempt to prevent any terrorist act.

Meanwhile I'll vote conscientiously, talk to as many people as I can, support the gun lobby (yes I'm a life member of the NRA), and write constructively to my elected representatives; I'll do everything possible to restore our country to its former strength and international respect. I do not support the PATRIOT Act or those who concieved it, and I will not support any further erosion of our liberty.

shego, thanks for publishing the Bill of Rights. More people should read this and compare it to current events. This is my country and I love it and I believe in it. But I am not going to stand passively by while it's taken apart one piece at a time by well meaning but uniformed people.
 
Now I admit, that there are a bunch of book writers in this country that have always hated the government anyway. Such guys have latched onto the events of 9/11 in order to support their own points of view.

Well, I think we may be getting at the root of the problem....Perception.

I don't read those books either. Just because I may share some common ideas does not make me like them.
I don't see black helicopters or the UN setting up shop in the Hanover Sheriffs dept. (They don't need to)

I don't belong to a militia. Just so you know a little about the type of people you think are subversive, let me tell you a little about the groups I do or have belonged to:

I was a Scout master.

I was the vice president of the PTA

I belong to the Chamber of Commerce and before that the JC's

I belong to the Lions Club

I was The County Commissioner to the Regional Planning District Commission.

I am a Hanover Master Gardner.

When I was with the state, I was on the board to establish the first Fuel Assistance program in Va.

I have my company set aside 1% of the profits to anomalously help people with financial problems. (these are mostly the working poor)

Last Christmas a high school student was mugged waiting for the bus in Richmond. They took several hundred dollars that he was going to use for presents. We replaced it through the news people that evening!

Pretty rough crowd isn't it.

If you will notice, my initial solution is to vote. I didn't say vote my way, I just said vote.
Now that's real subversion.

Just because I feel differently about the fence, does not make me a bad person.
 
DaQo'tah Forge said:
But so far, I have not seen any of the people I know talk about a freedom that we have and enjoy being taken away. I have the same life now as I did before 9/11. I make knives the same way, I dont have any problems starting a fire in my forge. Things seem about the same for my knifemaking here.
....
Click to expand...

maybe we should get out more :footinmou :D

It's been said,, you just havn't had it efect you yet.
do you know of anyone in the war right now?
 
I would think that the lesson of our founding fathers and the Constitution they enacted suggests that love of country and love of freedom is the VERY REASON one has to be be leery and watchful of government. They were acutely aware of the potential abuses, and it is apparent in ther writings. Government was intended to be as limited as possible, and freedoms maximized. The multi-partate system of executive, legislative, and judicial was set up to watchdog itself, not work in concert to corral it's citizens. (Sometimes it still works that way, sometimes not; special interests have too much influence to serve the common good.)

Further, a free press was intended to offer the citizens an opportunity to also watchdog the politicians and keep the continuing debate about the efficacy and integrity of government ongoing, so that power couldn't be sufficiently concentrated so as to become tyrannical. At the very least, aggravating alternate viewpoints force us to THINK and review the system. It alerts us to abuses, current and potential. As much as journalists disgust me, I am terrified to think what it must be like with just a "State" newspaper.

Rereading the Amendments was excellent. It is a definitive statement that people knew that intrusion by government is to be suspect and severely limited. It was an acknowledgement that government will tend to overpower the citizens if given the opportunity, simply by it's very nature.

Dissent is at the very core of our being as a nation, the most crucial check-and-balance of them all. It creates our conscience, and maintains our freedom. Democracy is the most fragile form of government, the most difficult to maintain, and without constant re-evaluation it will not persist.

Radicals founded this nation. They have brought about the best changes our nation has enjoyed. Growth has often been painful. We need the radicals from all viewpoints to keep us on our toes as a nation. Complacency or total unity of viewpoint is the eventual death of us as a republic. If government is not kept in check, it will eventually enslave us. Our obligation as franchised citizens is to prevent that.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
Others much more eloquent than I have spoken of such matters....

Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. – John Adams (1814)

One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation. – Thomas B. Reed (1886)

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. – P.J. O'Rourke

The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates. – Tacitus

There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. – Robert Heinlein

The true danger is when Liberty is nibbled away, for expedients. – Edmund Burke

A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. – Thomas Jefferson

Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. – Goethe

When the government's boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence. – Gary Lloyd

Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. – H.L. Mencken

The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. – H.L. Mencken

Where morality is present, laws are unnecessary. Without morality, laws are unenforceable. – Anonymous

It is not the business of government to make men virtuous or religious, or to preserve the fool from the consequences of his own folly. Government should be repressive no further than is necessary to secure liberty by protecting the equal rights of each from aggression on the part of others, and the moment governmental prohibitions extend beyond this line they are in danger of defeating the very ends they are intended to serve. – Henry George

Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. – George Washington

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. – Benjamin Franklin

A bad law does not have to affect one's everyday life to be a bad law - and it is the slow encroachment of bad laws on our right that is so terrifying. One only has to read about the history of Gun Control in England, Canada, and Australia to see how easily one can wake up one morning and find that your rights have been abrogated. One of the most recent abrogations of our right to free speech is the McCain-Feingold Act, when you read and understand how much affect this "law" will have on all of us it should scare the pants of of you.
And yes I have had the Patriot Act and other laws like this affect me personally - not just recently but since the 1960's at least. I have had friends who were taken into custody (not arrested because that gave them rights) and held without recourse because they fit a government "profile" of some sort and this has happened to me as well - I didn't look like a "good" citizen and like Mr. Fowler I was pulled over and rousted just because - and the scary thing was those law enforment officers felt they had the right to treat me whatever way they wished just because they were cops - they did not care one iota that I had rights and were more than willing to take the law into their own hands. Don't get me wrong, I have a high respect for most law enforcement personnel, but they are not all good folk.
 
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