Offer Survive Knives on Auctions? Win Win for Guy and Everyone?

mlmcasual said:
You are doing away with the Preorder system? You currently are taking preorders on your site for the 6, 12 etc.. , when are you phasing that out? And what will it be replaced with? The original style first come first serve?

I have several knives done through the preorder that are looking to date like they will take over a year from the day I preorder-prepaid for them.. (gso 7,12). I'll be honest, going forward I concede that year+ lead-times are just not for me in the future.. though I did think it was a good option you had and at least guaranteed a knife and at retail price.. The ones I have on preorder were going to be my last purchases directly from Survive! and I was planning on just resort to buying off scalpers on Ebay when I could find them.. If you are doing away with the preorder system I can start trying on the first come first serve system instead of having to resort to scalpers.. so it's sort of good news for me..

I work in the engineering testing business myself at a small company.. I help design, make, market, sell products and I have been doing it for 25 years. We have a few saying regarding customers,
"we want to help them but we are not a charity".. and "customers want it Cheap, Fast, and high quality... PICK 2!"..
Click to expand...

When the knives start production we look at how many preorders were placed. Then we make way more than that, while closing preorders to make sure no more orders are placed. As the knives finish production the preorders are fulfilled, and then the remaining knives are available first come, first served on Mondays. Once the remaining blades sell out, there won't be any way to buy one until the next run is completed. Fortunately, the next runs will go much faster since the programming and setup has already been done.

The cheap, fast, high quality conundrum has been haunting us from the beginning. I think we have a plan to help with that, but only time and a bit more r&d will tell.
 
I don't mind waiting it out. I'm at a year now, and honestly don't mind. I hopped on the list and know I have two awesome blades in route soon. I will also be snagging another one closer to the closing of its pre order.

I also like the Monday sales, I think it reaches more people. Especially since its at random times, I think that helps others in different time zones.

Keep up the good work.
 
As a professional seller on eBay, I take serious issues with some of the derogatory terms and the negative blanket statements used by some in here describing eBay sellers!

For full disclosure, I do not sell knives on eBay and just recently developed a penchant for quality knives and I discovered this forum quite accidentally because every Google search which I conducted regarding a certain blade marque and manufacturer, kept bringing up topics posted by the members of BF on Google very first few searches! I lurked for a while before I decided to join as a basic member (which I will be upgrading to Gold just because of the extra benefits) to ask the LionSteel boardies a question which I had regarding an intended purchase of a LionSteel knife known as the M7 in Sleipner steel. Subsequently I decided to cancel that order on Amazon (through a third party seller) because I saw a couple of videos on YT which had me changed my mind about Sleipner steels and its proclivity toward fast corrosion even if in fresh non-salted water. I fish in the No.Cal rivers so that was going to be an issue for me.

OK, the second paragraph was just a brief bio and the reason for me presence on BF and really has not much to do with the topic, but I felt compelled to chime in and my intention is NOT to defend eBay sellers and be their White Knight, but to caution some of the fellow members in here against throwing unpleasant labels around and ask you not to generalize everyone who sells on eBay as a "scalper" or a "scammer". I have already admitted that I make a living selling on eBay and I also buy some of my merchandise on eBay which related to my own business activities and many times I have turned around and sold those items for multiples of what I paid for them and on rare occasions, I have even heard from a bitter losing bidder that I was price gauging people and that a certain item which was sold (won by me) for $X before and now I am selling it at $2X, yada, yada! Which brings me to advise #1: DO NOT BE AN EBAY VIGILANTE! It is rather embarrassing, so do not be that guy! I am fully aware that eBay is not quite the utopia and it attracts many bad actors with nefarious intentions , both on the buying and the selling side. For instance, one of these so-called "scammers" who sells factory seconds from Survive! Knives will perhaps sadly get a chargeback dispute from a charlatan buyer who wil have used the knife and in 6 months after the sale decides to start a dispute thanks to PayPal's new policies (180 days return or dispute window) and return to the seller a box containing a cheaply made Chinese blade claiming that was the knife which he had received. If the said seller is an active seller on eBay and both eBay and PayPal still have access to his bank account and CC info, he/she will undoubtedly and 100% lose the chargeback and will have to open an investigation by the U.S. Postal Inspectors for mail fraud, that is if the fraudulent buyer sends back the Chinese made replacement by mail. If he sent it back by FedEx or UPS, well good luck! :rolleyes:

I would like to stop meandering and pitch in that there are plenty of good sellers on eBay and the good ones often outweigh the bad ones by leaps and bounds. Up until two weeks ago, I had no idea about what Survive! Knives were about, but I am a very quick study and a very fast learner! I have even tried to purchase a GSO (either 5.1 or 4.1) and I was outbid by a sniper bid in the last few seconds. If you are alert and smart, you will see a pattern from some of these regular sellers on eBay and yes, they make some false claims as to why they are selling their Survive! Knife and even if it BS and you really want the knife and do not wish to wait, well; no one is twisting your arm to purchase from them or from eBay!

Lastly a word to the Knife Maker:

If you were really concerned about certain sellers bucking a trend on eBay which is contrary to your business model, culture, belief, whatever; you can look into becoming a VeRO member (verified rights owner) and yank every single auction relating to your products which you do not wish to see on eBay. Although I do not condone this practice as I have been on the receiving end of it from certain VeRO members (Disney, Louis Vuitton, Tiffany's, etc have been doing these practices for years and some of them even successfully sued against eBay which you can readily research such past cases) However, here is the bottmline: this is a free market Country and as long as someone is not defrauding you, then let the marketplace determine the value of something which goes long on the basic short supply and high demand curve. Be careful about going down the VeRO lane specially if you do not have deep pockets, because there will always be that one guy who has a sister who has a boyfriend who happens to be a bulldog of a litigating attorney who would love to take on a case like this and many appellate courts have ruled in favor of the plaintiff by successfully bringing up the SCOTUS First Sale Doctrine Laws! Ouch!

Oh before I forget, the seller whom I cancelled the order of the LionSteel M7 on Amazon, I found on eBay under a different trading name and since he was such a good guy and fair (Knuts4Knives) I bought something else from him on eBay instead. Note: we are not all bad :cool:
 
Casinostocks said:
As a professional seller on eBay, I take serious issues with some of the derogatory terms and the negative blanket statements used by some in here describing eBay sellers!

For full disclosure, I do not sell knives on eBay and just recently developed a penchant for quality knives and I discovered this forum quite accidentally because every Google search which I conducted regarding a certain blade marque and manufacturer, kept bringing up topics posted by the members of BF on Google very first few searches! I lurked for a while before I decided to join as a basic member (which I will be upgrading to Gold just because of the extra benefits) to ask the LionSteel boardies a question which I had regarding an intended purchase of a LionSteel knife known as the M7 in Sleipner steel. Subsequently I decided to cancel that order on Amazon (through a third party seller) because I saw a couple of videos on YT which had me changed my mind about Sleipner steels and its proclivity toward fast corrosion even if in fresh non-salted water. I fish in the No.Cal rivers so that was going to be an issue for me.

OK, the second paragraph was just a brief bio and the reason for me presence on BF and really has not much to do with the topic, but I felt compelled to chime in and my intention is NOT to defend eBay sellers and be their White Knight, but to caution some of the fellow members in here against throwing unpleasant labels around and ask you not to generalize everyone who sells on eBay as a "scalper" or a "scammer". I have already admitted that I make a living selling on eBay and I also buy some of my merchandise on eBay which related to my own business activities and many times I have turned around and sold those items for multiples of what I paid for them and on rare occasions, I have even heard from a bitter losing bidder that I was price gauging people and that a certain item which was sold (won by me) for $X before and now I am selling it at $2X, yada, yada! Which brings me to advise #1: DO NOT BE AN EBAY VIGILANTE! It is rather embarrassing, so do not be that guy! I am fully aware that eBay is not quite the utopia and it attracts many bad actors with nefarious intentions , both on the buying and the selling side. For instance, one of these so-called "scammers" who sells factory seconds from Survive! Knives will perhaps sadly get a chargeback dispute from a charlatan buyer who wil have used the knife and in 6 months after the sale decides to start a dispute thanks to PayPal's new policies (180 days return or dispute window) and return to the seller a box containing a cheaply made Chinese blade claiming that was the knife which he had received. If the said seller is an active seller on eBay and both eBay and PayPal still have access to his bank account and CC info, he/she will undoubtedly and 100% lose the chargeback and will have to open an investigation by the U.S. Postal Inspectors for mail fraud, that is if the fraudulent buyer sends back the Chinese made replacement by mail. If he sent it back by FedEx or UPS, well good luck! :rolleyes:

I would like to stop meandering and pitch in that there are plenty of good sellers on eBay and the good ones often outweigh the bad ones by leaps and bounds. Up until two weeks ago, I had no idea about what Survive! Knives were about, but I am a very quick study and a very fast learner! I have even tried to purchase a GSO (either 5.1 or 4.1) and I was outbid by a sniper bid in the last few seconds. If you are alert and smart, you will see a pattern from some of these regular sellers on eBay and yes, they make some false claims as to why they are selling their Survive! Knife and even if it BS and you really want the knife and do not wish to wait, well; no one is twisting your arm to purchase from them or from eBay!

Lastly a word to the Knife Maker:

If you were really concerned about certain sellers bucking a trend on eBay which is contrary to your business model, culture, belief, whatever; you can look into becoming a VeRO member (verified rights owner) and yank every single auction relating to your products which you do not wish to see on eBay. Although I do not condone this practice as I have been on the receiving end of it from certain VeRO members (Disney, Louis Vuitton, Tiffany's, etc have been doing these practices for years and some of them even successfully sued against eBay which you can readily research such past cases) However, here is the bottmline: this is a free market Country and as long as someone is not defrauding you, then let the marketplace determine the value of something which goes long on the basic short supply and high demand curve. Be careful about going down the VeRO lane specially if you do not have deep pockets, because there will always be that one guy who has a sister who has a boyfriend who happens to be a bulldog of a litigating attorney who would love to take on a case like this and many appellate courts have ruled in favor of the plaintiff by successfully bringing up the SCOTUS First Sale Doctrine Laws! Ouch!

Oh before I forget, the seller whom I cancelled the order of the LionSteel M7 on Amazon, I found on eBay under a different trading name and since he was such a good guy and fair (Knuts4Knives) I bought something else from him on eBay instead. Note: we are not all bad :cool:
Click to expand...



Well, the term "scalper" I use may not be as politically correct as opportunist or "professional Seller" but it's the best term I could think . Not sure why you would take issue with that term or the saying we would rather see the money actually go towards the person that MADE the product.. Sorry if it hurts your feelings but Idon't think anyone ever implied it was Illegal. it IS a legal function of free market. That said, so what's your point posting here? To claim being victimized by the term "Scalper" in the pejorative sense? Please.... Guy is an artisan at Survive! of the highest caliber that produces what are considered by many as the best knives in the world. so if you are trying to make the equivalency that someone that MAKES something that takes incredible talent/brain power is the same or deserves the same respect as someone that rides off those people to scalp for profit, Cry me a river. I stand by my original statement. I would rather see Guy get that 40% not you. Well that's my 2 cent's anyway.
 
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Casinostocks said:
As a professional seller on eBay, I take serious issues with some of the derogatory terms and the negative blanket statements used by some in here describing eBay sellers!

For full disclosure, I do not sell knives on eBay and just recently developed a penchant for quality knives and I discovered this forum quite accidentally because every Google search which I conducted regarding a certain blade marque and manufacturer, kept bringing up topics posted by the members of BF on Google very first few searches! I lurked for a while before I decided to join as a basic member (which I will be upgrading to Gold just because of the extra benefits) to ask the LionSteel boardies a question which I had regarding an intended purchase of a LionSteel knife known as the M7 in Sleipner steel. Subsequently I decided to cancel that order on Amazon (through a third party seller) because I saw a couple of videos on YT which had me changed my mind about Sleipner steels and its proclivity toward fast corrosion even if in fresh non-salted water. I fish in the No.Cal rivers so that was going to be an issue for me.

OK, the second paragraph was just a brief bio and the reason for me presence on BF and really has not much to do with the topic, but I felt compelled to chime in and my intention is NOT to defend eBay sellers and be their White Knight, but to caution some of the fellow members in here against throwing unpleasant labels around and ask you not to generalize everyone who sells on eBay as a "scalper" or a "scammer". I have already admitted that I make a living selling on eBay and I also buy some of my merchandise on eBay which related to my own business activities and many times I have turned around and sold those items for multiples of what I paid for them and on rare occasions, I have even heard from a bitter losing bidder that I was price gauging people and that a certain item which was sold (won by me) for $X before and now I am selling it at $2X, yada, yada! Which brings me to advise #1: DO NOT BE AN EBAY VIGILANTE! It is rather embarrassing, so do not be that guy! I am fully aware that eBay is not quite the utopia and it attracts many bad actors with nefarious intentions , both on the buying and the selling side. For instance, one of these so-called "scammers" who sells factory seconds from Survive! Knives will perhaps sadly get a chargeback dispute from a charlatan buyer who wil have used the knife and in 6 months after the sale decides to start a dispute thanks to PayPal's new policies (180 days return or dispute window) and return to the seller a box containing a cheaply made Chinese blade claiming that was the knife which he had received. If the said seller is an active seller on eBay and both eBay and PayPal still have access to his bank account and CC info, he/she will undoubtedly and 100% lose the chargeback and will have to open an investigation by the U.S. Postal Inspectors for mail fraud, that is if the fraudulent buyer sends back the Chinese made replacement by mail. If he sent it back by FedEx or UPS, well good luck! :rolleyes:

I would like to stop meandering and pitch in that there are plenty of good sellers on eBay and the good ones often outweigh the bad ones by leaps and bounds. Up until two weeks ago, I had no idea about what Survive! Knives were about, but I am a very quick study and a very fast learner! I have even tried to purchase a GSO (either 5.1 or 4.1) and I was outbid by a sniper bid in the last few seconds. If you are alert and smart, you will see a pattern from some of these regular sellers on eBay and yes, they make some false claims as to why they are selling their Survive! Knife and even if it BS and you really want the knife and do not wish to wait, well; no one is twisting your arm to purchase from them or from eBay!

Lastly a word to the Knife Maker:

If you were really concerned about certain sellers bucking a trend on eBay which is contrary to your business model, culture, belief, whatever; you can look into becoming a VeRO member (verified rights owner) and yank every single auction relating to your products which you do not wish to see on eBay. Although I do not condone this practice as I have been on the receiving end of it from certain VeRO members (Disney, Louis Vuitton, Tiffany's, etc have been doing these practices for years and some of them even successfully sued against eBay which you can readily research such past cases) However, here is the bottmline: this is a free market Country and as long as someone is not defrauding you, then let the marketplace determine the value of something which goes long on the basic short supply and high demand curve. Be careful about going down the VeRO lane specially if you do not have deep pockets, because there will always be that one guy who has a sister who has a boyfriend who happens to be a bulldog of a litigating attorney who would love to take on a case like this and many appellate courts have ruled in favor of the plaintiff by successfully bringing up the SCOTUS First Sale Doctrine Laws! Ouch!

Oh before I forget, the seller whom I cancelled the order of the LionSteel M7 on Amazon, I found on eBay under a different trading name and since he was such a good guy and fair (Knuts4Knives) I bought something else from him on eBay instead. Note: we are not all bad :cool:
Click to expand...

So you're ok with someone selling a Survive! GSO 5.1 for $325-$350 when they purchased it from the website for $206-$229?
People that make money off of other people's hard work are a joke in my opinion. Love it, hate it, I can care less.
 
To come in as the "victim" because he is a "professional seller" . Just shakes head..
 
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Ok, before this goes any further down the road...

Obviously, we would rather people buy the knives directly from us. That isn't always possible so the secondary market is the alternative. So long as our availability is low, opportunists will try to capitalize on that. That is entirely up to them. It is a free market. If you are not comfortable with a sale for any reason, don't buy it. If no one buys, the seller will have to figure out why and alleviate the issue if they are to sell the product.

We will not lower quality to make more knives, faster. We will not raise prices simply to decrease demand by alienating folks with shallower pockets. As a result, people have the ability to take advantage of others peoples desire to have it now without the Monday rush.
 
I would suggest you read the information provided on the Survive Website-it tells you how long to expect to wait for a knife and that they DO NOT guarantee a Delivery Date-For the Quality and Workmanship of the Survive Knives you WILL not find a better knife for the Price they are asking-Survive knives are ALREADY priced below Competitors Prices-They are a great Bargain-I am sure you will save a lot of Money just buying off Scalpers-Cheers and good luck on E-Bay
mlmcasual said:
You are doing away with the Preorder system? You currently are taking preorders on your site for the 6, 12 etc.. , when are you phasing that out? And what will it be replaced with? The original style first come first serve?

I have several knives done through the preorder that are looking to date like they will take over a year from the day I preorder-prepaid for them.. (gso 7,12). I'll be honest, going forward I concede that year+ lead-times are just not for me in the future.. though I did think it was a good option you had and at least guaranteed a knife and at retail price.. The ones I have on preorder were going to be my last purchases directly from Survive! and I was planning on just resort to buying off scalpers on Ebay when I could find them.. If you are doing away with the preorder system I can start trying on the first come first serve system instead of having to resort to scalpers.. so it's sort of good news for me..

I work in the engineering testing business myself at a small company.. I help design, make, market, sell products and I have been doing it for 25 years. We have a few saying regarding customers,
"we want to help them but we are not a charity".. and "customers want it Cheap, Fast, and high quality... PICK 2!"..
Click to expand...
 
ok, so let me get this right, the guy bashing eBay sellers is "that guy" which i presume is a negative, then you go on the call buyers charlatans while fervently defending your decision to exploit a market? hypocrite? self-conscious?
 
mlmcasual,

FYI use of that particular emoticon/emoji/(whatever-it's-called-now) is restricted to the Whine & Cheese subforum. Use of it elsewhere can result in an infraction, as can personal attacks. I am not a moderator, but them's the rules last i read. I recommend editing your previous post(s).

That's all! Enjoy the free-market while it lasts :D
 
I am fine with someone who tries to sell a $230 product for $350 on eBay. If I needed one badly, I would buy one. I would consider having been "taken" if the item was not as described, e.g, someone buys a factory second and then represents it as a Safe Queen, brand new and no flaws.

I also understand the negative sentiment about eBay sellers as everyone has had some bad experiences on eBay, but I was merely pointing out that the good really does outweigh the bad in leaps and bounds. I am not here to argue the merits vs the pitfalls but I thought that my experiences
with both sides of the ledger would be of use to someone (there are some silent members who are not as colorful as Mr. Engineer who uses his brain power)

Note to Mr. Engineer: there are a few fabulous quotes from Henry Ford that I could enlighten you with, but I won't bother. You rock on brainy, but you missed the part where I categorically had stated that my business is NOT into selling knives on eBay!
 
And I agree wholeheartedly. I was pointing out that there is a way already (used by some manufacturers) to limit, curb or to police the secondary market sale of their products on eBay but there are also pitfalls with regards to potential litigation matters. In your case (if you really wanted to) it would be a lot easier to chase down these secondary market sellers because typically they start an auction (listing) on eBay shortly after they receive their merchandise so you will know who is selling them as you have records of what had been purchased in that monthly cycle when you are selling your factory seconds.

As a footnote, I personally think that for you to get directly into the auction business (the idea presented by Mr. Engineer) is a waste of time with little upward potential. You already seem to have a wonderful and very sought after product range, so you will perhaps even end up with the gold plated chopper which you never wanted to start with ;)

P.S. I am hoping to acquire one of your GSO 5.1 offered as a second, before Mr. Engineer gets one (that would be too amusing) :D
 
Not offended by the coarse language or the derog emoji directed at me. Wouldn't want Mr. Engineer to get a slap on the wrist because of me. The purpose of my OP was not to rile up some of the members. Still glad that I found this forum and didn't buy the LionSteel M7 and instead I came across the Survive! Knives and some of the other better manufactured knives made here in the U.S.

I will try to buy one on the direct factory second offering and if unsuccessful, I have my sights on a Fallkniven S1 Pro as a consolation till I go the normal long wait period route and eventually end up with a 5.1 or 5.0 GSO in 3V. If anyone wishes to hazard me against the Fallkniven S1 Pro series, please let me know. I think that although pricey at around $280, it is a big improvement over the regular VG10 S1 plus it comes with some extra goodies as a package. What do you think?
 
XtianAus said:
I would never buy from a scalper/second-hand market. I much rather have a much longer waiting period and see my money go to those who deserve it (the company).

I think a lot of people^ could buy a whole lot of pre-orders or say for example the limited busse supplies and then making a killing from the re-sales. But out of principle they do not...that's the people i appreciate.

Sometimes people need to sell their second-hand knives for various reasons which is fine
But those that buy just so that they can make a large and greedy profit from them....screw those guys
Click to expand...

The money already went to the company when the knife sold the first time.

Buying something at a low price and reselling it is not inherently evil. It's capitalism. Some of these people are just in the business of re-sales because they can make a profit or can earn a living doing it. We sometimes get offended because we are "knife people" or just enjoy this forum. To most of the so called scalpers, it doesn't matter if they are knives or coffee cups, or light bulbs. Economics 101. Supply vs. demand.

Look at the Yeti market. At Christmas time the big Yeti cups ($40.00) were selling in the secondary market for $60-$75.00. Is it evil, terrible people buying all the Yeti cups and making a profit, or are they smart business people taking advantage of simple supply side economics?

Just my $.02 YMMV
 
Hale Storm said:
The money already went to the company when the knife sold the first time.

Buying something at a low price and reselling it is not inherently evil. It's capitalism. Some of these people are just in the business of re-sales because they can make a profit or can earn a living doing it. We sometimes get offended because we are "knife people" or just enjoy this forum. To most of the so called scalpers, it doesn't matter if they are knives or coffee cups, or light bulbs. Economics 101. Supply vs. demand.

Look at the Yeti market. At Christmas time the big Yeti cups ($40.00) were selling in the secondary market for $60-$75.00. Is it evil, terrible people buying all the Yeti cups and making a profit, or are they smart business people taking advantage of simple supply side economics?

Just my $.02 YMMV
Click to expand...



It's legit and legal.. Does it deserve respect or freedom from criticism? Absolutely not.. Reselling a good or service when it's not providing a service in of itself.. just isn't in the same league as actually Producing a good or a service... Sorry, it just isn't.
Western society for centuries has ruled against PURE UNFETTERED capitalism and be considered in some cases evil and disruptive/destructive to the free market. That's why there are anti trust laws. That's why scalping is illegal in some markets, and that's why the Justice dept. is scrambling against Drug pharmaceutical mogal Shkreli who was buying and reselling pharmaceutical drugs at astronomical prices.
 
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mlmcasual said:
It's legit and legal.. Does it deserve respect or freedom from criticism? Absolutely not.. Reselling a good or service when it's not providing a service in of itself.. just isn't in the same league as actually Producing a good or a service... Sorry, it just isn't.
Click to expand...

There is no logic in that and no basis in economics. Based on your statement, the farmer growing peas should sell directly to the public and reap all of the profit from his hard work, instead of the evil supermarkets buying them and selling them at "scalper" prices? Almost EVERYTHING in the world economy is re-sold for profit.

What if the secondary market was viewed the way many have posted here? "I don't want to wait a year for a 4.7 so I didn't preorder one". "I'll just pay the secondary market prices for one when they come available". I fail to see what is wrong with that. The person who bought that 4.7 IS providing a "service" to ME. And I'm willing to pay for that service. I bought an OLD model GSO 4.1 in M390. I paid $269.00 for it I think. But I wanted it and it was for sale. Did the owner of it scalp me? Nope. The value of it became $269.00 when I bought it.

The ebay price becomes the value when someone decides to pay that price and buy the item. Why is it so wrong and evil that the individual actually made a profit?
 
You are making a strawman argument. Distribution is not the same thing as scalping, and I never said scalping was Evil.. I said scalping is not worthy of respect and not in the same category as those that provide a service or a good. If you are trying to conflate scalping with market distribution that's a weak strawman. Not the same.
If you think they are the same, why don't you try defending CEO Martin Shkreli to us who sold a life saving drug 1000 fold on the secondary market?
 
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