Officially done with Paypal!

[fulloflead]

...it was a comic book, not a knife, it falls under Media Mail guidelines.

OK. You didn't specify in your post and it's a knife forum, so... Anyway, it should have gotten there.

Paypal would have taken that 59-cents either way though. That's how they work. It's actually a credit card fee. If they payer had the money in his paypal account there wouldn't have been a fee, OR if you don't upgrade your paypal account to accept credit cards there wouldn't be a fee.

If you don't see a problem in that, that's not my problem. Good for you that you have had good service with them...

Don't be a weenie.

 

[Nick7]

Fullo,

I don't want to get into a pissing contest, but why don't you go a little easier on the guy? First you jump to conclusions on what he shipped and go on the attack, then after the guy tells you it was indeed "media"...you continue on. Give the guy a break!! Some people who do not own a business and deal with merchant accounts are not used to the logic that is part of the credit card world we live in.

Here is a merchant account scenario that is far worse than the paypal deal, but happens every day with regular merchant accounts and has to be looked at (unfortunately) as the cost of doing business.

You sell someone an item (comic book or knife) and ship it by a method that gives you tracking and maybe even insurance (like Fed Ex. Ground). The customer never contacts you, but calls his credit card company and says he is not paying because he never got the item. The merchant is immediately charged a $20 chargback fee, regardless of your answer (or the amount of the charge) or what proof you might have. So, you now supply the Fed. Ex. tracking number to your cc clearance company. The customer is contacted, but insists he never got the item. You are now notified....another $20 fee is charged for a secondary chargeback. You again supply the tracking information and a letter from Fed. Ex. showing that the item has been delivered. Now you get a third $20 chargeback fee. This is now a total of $60 regardless of the amount of the initial charge.

So, a letter comes in the mail from the customer's daughter stating that your customer is senile and has made a mistake. Believe it or not, the $60 in fees remains, as they are administrative fees to straighten out the matter. Now it is straightened out. You are out $60 and the initial charge for $10 is reinstated. This is far worse than the paypal incident (and by the way, each time that $10 goes in and out of your account on the chargeback rebuttals, the 2% fee is charged, just like paypal did to silent hunter). The cc processors make a fortune on this stuff.

It gets even worse. Let's say the guy isn't senile and this thing continues. As far as credit card companies (VISA/MC) are concerned, postal confirmation and tracking are not sufficient. We have sent postal confirmation information showing an item delivered many times and each time a lot of fees, but the initial charge is reversed in favor of the customer. The answer is that you need a signature delivery. But it gets even worse. If you have a signature of a household member...but not the purchaser (person who used the credit card)....you are also out. The only way you can win is if you have the signature of the cardholder showing that he received the item. All of the chargeback fees still stand, as well as the 2% in and out on chargeback and rebuttal.

We do approx. $20,000 every day on credit cards and the only way to look at this and stay sane is "the cost of doing business". When it is a small paypal transaction with a person who is not used to this abuse, it is very difficult to take any loss.

Let's try to be kinder and gentler to our brothers!

Nick/out.

 

[Knife Outlet]

Fullo,

The only way you can win is if you have the signature of the cardholder showing that he received the item. All of the chargeback fees still stand, as well as the 2% in and out on chargeback and rebuttal.

Nick/out.

Not necessarily. I've even lost a chargeback dispute when I had a signed letter from the the customer admitting he had received the product. Our volume is only about 1/2 yours but we do see a lot lf transactions and a reasonable number of chargebacks - may $20,000 or $30,000 worth per year. In 7 years of business, I've never won a chargeback dispute unless the customer intervened and dropped the chargeback. Not one in 7 years. I don't even respond to them any more. I just write them off.

People don't realize that anybody can get his money back every time from a mail order or internet merchant simply by doing a chargeback. There is not a thing the merchant can do other than bring a lawsuit which is impractical.

 

[Nick7]

We have won a few chargebacks.....very few believe me....but our product is different and I can see how your customer base is different and the chances are even less for you.

We even had one where a customer's daughter wrote a very nice letter explaining that her father does not speak English and that he completely and totally made a mistake. The credit card clearance company, Cardservices International, refused to reverse the chargeback (this was on a $50 order where $40 had already been donated to chargebacks plus the 2% fees in and out)....until the matter was cleared by the customer's bank. We eventually contacted the customer's bank (as we used to vigorously chase this stuff) and they were angry with Cardservices, claiming that they had no right to divulge the number for the investigations division of that particular member bank. This was eventually reversed after 2 hours of work and a loss equal to the charge.

The only real winners at every angle to this are the cc companies and the processors.....but you can't do any volume without them. It's like having the devil for a partner. :grumpy:

 

[joeshredd]

Hi Joe,

To get the freebie, all you have to do is open up an online USPS account, download some software and you're in business. The confirmation I'm talking about is the USPS electronic delivery confirmation that they normally charge something like 50 cents for. For now, if you ship priority via their website it is free. Check it out. I've done it 100's of times.

Razz

Hey Razz...
Thanks for the info, I'll look into it! Still not clear how they can do it, though, as there isn't any barcode for the recipient PO to scan to verify, is there???
Oh well, it'll be worth looking at for future reference! Appreciate the Head's Up!

 

[fewpop]

Hey Razz...
Thanks for the info, I'll look into it! Still not clear how they can do it, though, as there isn't any barcode for the recipient PO to scan to verify, is there???
Oh well, it'll be worth looking at for future reference! Appreciate the Head's Up!

When you use the USPS software to print your own mailing labels, it does print a barcode on the label in addition to the sender and recipient address info. Also prints the confirmation number and insurance number, if you opt for insurance up to $200. Order free priority shipping boxes online, tape your "homemade" shipping label on, drop in mailbox, and done. Beats waiting in line at the post office and you get free delivery confirmation. You can "track" the del. conf. # online, but it really won't tell you anything until it is scanned at the recipient end. Works for me.