offtopic counterfeit discussion removed

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Ulf Krogstad

Ulf Krogstad

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Nov 19, 2013
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Ganzo,enlan, sanrenmu, just rip off the designs from other companies/designers. Cloners. They and the people who buy their products need a kick in the teeth imo. I'd get a Cold Steel or Kershaw. I think you can get a Cold Steel Recon or Hold out for under $30 or close. The Rat 1 is descent knife too. But for the money, would get a cold steel.

BTW had a ganzo (one that was a clone of Benchmade Bedlam) and didn't take a descent edge let alone hold one. They are toys,clones, garbage.
 
I have both the Ganzo and the RAT 1. You should get the RAT 1 or 2, it's smoother and feels sturdier. Ganzo's axis lock isn't great. And there's nothing wrong with making knives inspired by popular models as long as it's not a complete rip-off, it's not like Cold Steel hasn't been known to do the same thing.
 
skrubsickle said:
Which one is better for the money? I can only order off amazon. Other suggestions are accepted but they have to bet under $30 as this is a gift for my 14 year old cousin.
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Not even a question. That Ganzo has a is a copied design and uses an unlicensed copy of the Benchmade Axis lock. It is basically a counterfeit.

MaximIsayev said:
I have both the Ganzo and the RAT 1. You should get the RAT 1 or 2, it's smoother and feels sturdier. Ganzo's axis lock isn't great. And there's nothing wrong with making knives inspired by popular models as long as it's not a complete rip-off, it's not like Cold Steel hasn't been known to do the same thing.
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Bull Snot.

It is a direct copy of the Rat knives except for the lock which is an unlicensed copy of the patented Benchmade Axis lock. To own this knife is to support counterfeiting.
 
craytab said:
Not even a question. That Ganzo has a is a copied design and uses an unlicensed copy of the Benchmade Axis lock. It is basically a counterfeit.



Bull Snot.

It is a direct copy of the Rat knives except for the lock which is an unlicensed copy of the patented Benchmade Axis lock. To own this knife is to support counterfeiting.
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I've put it side by side with the RAT 1 and the Avispa, looks like the size and proportions are a bit off, it's it's about halfway between the RAT 1 and 2. While the lock may be a copy of Benchmade's lock (patenting such mechanisms is a questionable practice by itself, but that's a matter for a while different thread), the knife itself is still no more of a counterfeit than the Cold Steel Finn Bear which is a low-cost copy of the Tapio Wirkkala puukko, or half the stuff Boker Magnum sells.

[edit: Or the Cold Steel SRK which is a clone of the Fallkniven A1]

[edit 2: More examples: Cold Steel Master Hunter is a clone of the Fallkniven F1, Cold Steel GI Tanto Survival/Tactical is a clone of the Strider BN fixed blade, Cold Steel Canadian Belt Knife is a clone of the D.H. Russell Canadian Belt Knife, and so on and so on. Black Talon gets a pass because Spyderco gave them permission to copy it.]
 
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MaximIsayev said:
I've put it side by side with the RAT 1 and the Avispa, looks like the size and proportions are a bit off, it's it's about halfway between the RAT 1 and 2. While the lock may be a copy of Benchmade's lock (patenting such mechanisms is a questionable practice by itself, but that's a matter for a while different thread), the knife itself is still no more of a counterfeit than the Cold Steel Finn Bear which is a low-cost copy of the Tapio Wirkkala puukko, or half the stuff Boker Magnum sells. [edit: Or the Cold Steel SRK which is a clone of the Fallkniven A1]
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People come up with all sorts of excuses when they get called on their support of counterfeiting. "Its not exactly the same"..."Other companies do it"..."well patents are dumb anyway"...

Don't like to hear the truth about what you are doing then don't share it with us.
 
craytab said:
People come up with all sorts of excuses when they get called on their support of counterfeiting. "Its not exactly the same"..."Other companies do it"..."well patents are dumb anyway"...

Don't like to hear the truth about what you are doing then don't share it with us.
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It doesn't really bother me, I've owned multiple RAT 1s and other Ontario knives and will keep buying them. I wanted to get the Ganzo to see how it compares to the knife that originally inspired it. (it compared quite poorly, by the way) The part I don't get is how exactly is the Ganzo G727M a counterfeit if it is clearly marked it as a Ganzo knife and there was no attempt to pass it as the RAT 1. I'm sure there are counterfeit versions of the RAT 1 out there, but the G727M makes no attempt to copy Ontario's branding or name or anything else besides the overall shape of the knife. Seeing as there was no attempt to deceive or defraud the consumer there, it's clearly not a counterfeit but an inspired copy, very much like all those Cold Steel knives I've listed above, or the different variations of the Buck 110 floating around, or countless copies of the SAK.
 
MaximIsayev said:
It doesn't really bother me, I've owned multiple RAT 1s and other Ontario knives and will keep buying them. I wanted to get the Ganzo to see how it compares to the knife that originally inspired it. (it compared quite poorly, by the way) The part I don't get is how exactly is the Ganzo G727M a counterfeit if it is clearly marked it as a Ganzo knife and there was no attempt to pass it as the RAT 1. I'm sure there are counterfeit versions of the RAT 1 out there, but the G727M makes no attempt to copy Ontario's branding or name or anything else besides the overall shape of the knife. Seeing as there was no attempt to deceive or defraud the consumer there, it's clearly not a counterfeit but an inspired copy, very much like all those Cold Steel knives I've listed above, or the different variations of the Buck 110 floating around, or countless copies of the SAK.
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Ah, more justifications and excuses. The old, "well its not a counterfeit". Ganzo refers to the lock as an Axis lock. That would be a counterfeit lock on the knife.

It should bother you that your purchasing choices hurt the knife industry, the knife hobby, and thus this forum.
 
craytab said:
Ah, more justifications and excuses. The old, "well its not a counterfeit". Ganzo refers to the lock as an Axis lock. That would be a counterfeit lock on the knife.

It should bother you that your purchasing choices hurt the knife industry, the knife hobby, and thus this forum.
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I think what's hurting the knife industry is this knee-jerk reaction that a Chinese company can't make a knife without it being a counterfeit. As for the Axis lock being copyrighted, how is that different from all the knife manufacturers that use the Chris Reeve integral lock without giving him credit?
 
MaximIsayev said:
I think what's hurting the knife industry is this knee-jerk reaction that a Chinese company can't make a knife without it being a counterfeit. As for the Axis lock being copyrighted, how is that different from all the knife manufacturers that use the Chris Reeve integral lock without giving him credit?
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This is classic! Next argument to justify your support of counterfeiting is Sinophobia! Where did I say exactly that the Chinese can't make a knife without it being a counterfeit? That's right, I didn't! I own some great knives that come from China. Enlan EL-01 is one of the most underrated knives out there. Original Design.

And the integral lock thing? You already used that excuse above.
 
craytab said:
This is classic! Next argument to justify your support of counterfeiting is Sinophobia! Where did I say exactly that the Chinese can't make a knife without it being a counterfeit? That's right, I didn't! I own some great knives that come from China. Enlan EL-01 is one of the most underrated knives out there. Original Design.

And the integral lock thing? You already used that excuse above.
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Wait, you mean the EL-01 that is a "homage" to the Hinderer XM18? Hilarious...
 
MaximIsayev said:
Yeah, it's not like a short Google search can verify it or anything. Anyway, I'll follow the advice in your signature.
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You clearly did not look at it.

And then the Coup de grâce argument in legitimizing your support of counterfeiting: when nothing else works, declare the person who is right a troll and go play with your knock off knives. :thumbup:
 
craytab said:
That is because it is not :thumbup: This other guy doesn't know what he is talking about. But yes, the OP should check out the El-01. However, when I give a gift I want it to not be bottom barrel which the EL-01 still is. As an example, try to get any sort of warranty support from Enlan. It is unlikely. The Ontario RAT will be backed up by a very good company.
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I wouldn't call the el-01 a bottom of the barrel knife at all, its actually pretty damn impressive for the price. Very beefy folder that has handled concrete work and the abuse that comes with the work.
 
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