OH My W2 just arrived

[stefanj]

Wow, it is some thick steel!!! I saw the measurements but it just didn't sink in .65" and .75" thick by 1.875" wide and 17.75" long and 30" long. My little anvil is not going to be happy (it might, but the neighbors sure aren't).
Well now to the daunting tasking of cutting some W2

 

[Alarion]

I use W1 and W2 (old files are mostly made of this steel) a lot.
1) when you anneal it, let it lie in the forge and cool REEEAL SLOOOOW, as even letting it cool in still air will harden it enough to make cutting a daunting chore.
2) forge it at bright orange heat, stop as soon as you reach cherry red to reheat. Don't even think to hammer it under dull cherry red. It will crack.
forging it at a high enough heat will make the difference between a heavy task and an easy one. Under orange, it's like hammering concrete. You can finish the surface at this heat, but not really shape it

If you need tips on heat treating, just ask.

 

[Will Leavitt]

Why cut it? I hammer using the bar stock as a handle, lot easier than trying to hold onto hot steel with tongs (at least with the QW#$@! tongs I have )

 

[Alarion]

It's the best way anyway. If I have a bar, I use the tongs just for heat treating.

 

[stefanj]

I had welded a piece of steel rod to the piece which I was working on which lasted a little while. I then had to go to a pair of tongs/pliers.

Wow, that W2 flows like a hardened anvil face! I think I need to work on a forced air blower/burner setup to get the piece hotter faster. I have been swinging a hammer for two hours and was only able to beat the piece from 1.875"X.75" X 3 and a half to about 1"X1"X almost 5.
My forge is using propane like it is going out of style trying to get that piece to a decent heat. I have been using a 3 ' hammer (I'm upgrading to about a 12' hammer). By the time I'm done hammering out one knife I should have forearms like Popeye (I just needs me spinach).

 

[A. Brett Schaller]

I saw the title of your thread and thought, "Man, you have less than one day to do your taxes!"

 

[stefanj]

I saw the title of your thread and thought, "Man, you have less than one day to do your taxes!"

oh gosh talk about that nightmare!:barf::barf:
My aunt gave me some stocks (which lost a lot of money, but was very nice) that made figuring out my taxes much much much more difficult.

 

[Alarion]

One of the most common errors I've seen (and that I make myself) is to hammer on when the steel is too cold. As a guy who knew his trade told me "It's called 'forging' and not 'hammering' for a reason: because you must let the forge do the work for you".
Heat it well and let it soak, then hammer it until you start to feel that it doesn't move as well under the hammer. Then, return the piece to the forge immediately.
If you let a piece fall too far in temperature, you'll have a hard time shaping it, you'll get weary quickly hammering on rock hard metal, and you'll need a lot of time to bring the piece back to forging temp. if you return it to the fire at once as you feel it doesn't move under the hammer so well, while it's still cherry red, ity will get hot again in a matter of moments, and you'll shape it far more easily.
Forge drop in temp is less an issue with a propane forge which will run always at full temp, but it is significant in a manually operated coal forge, with a crank blower: while you lose time forging cold metal which is becoming colder and colder with each second, your forge gets colder as well.
I try to keep my old files always at bright orange as seen in daylight while I forge them. I let the temp drop more only when finishing the surface.
As a tip, also leave the hammer on the anvil face and handle the piece with your non hammering hand, leaving your working arm rest while the piece gets hot again.
It's surprising how much longer you'll be able to forge this way.

 

[stefanj]

I noticed the metal flowed much much easier when it was bright orange. It did take a while to get it that hot in between hammering which was probably also a problem of distance from anvil and me trying to hammer longer.
This is good advice!
I am working the metal slowly but was wondering if there are any easier ways to draw out the steel ie thin and lengthen without causing the edges to fold over? I have been trying to experiment with hammer strikes, angles to draw the steel out but I also need to work on keeping the piece hotter as well.

 

[stefanj]

BTW hows Italy?
I have to go back to work (just came home to get cleaned up after physical training, PT).

 

[sunshadow]

I noticed the metal flowed much much easier when it was bright orange. It did take a while to get it that hot in between hammering which was probably also a problem of distance from anvil and me trying to hammer longer.
This is good advice!
I am working the metal slowly but was wondering if there are any easier ways to draw out the steel ie thin and lengthen without causing the edges to fold over? I have been trying to experiment with hammer strikes, angles to draw the steel out but I also need to work on keeping the piece hotter as well.

Straight peen hammer, use the peen to squish out the metal in the direction you want, hammer in valleys with the peen, then pound them flat with the face and you will get directional movement, also use a big hammer. Heavy hammers give you deep movement, light hammers give you shallow movement. If you are mostly upsetting the face wit no body movement (basically mushrooming) you are not using enough hammer
This is what I use for drawing big stock

http://www.centaurforge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=5028023000

with some practice you can swing it with one hand if you choke up a bit on the handle

-Page

 

[Alarion]

Italy is well. Spring is coming, I can ride my bike, and after the new elections I hope economy as well will do better.

For forging, the best way to avoid mushrooming, provided as said that you use a hammer heavy enough, is to turn frequently the piece while you work it. it requires skill, but it's the best way. One, two blows on the edge and one, two on the flat, to avoid mushrooming.
Initially, work slowly. Precision of shape is more important than speed.
Speed will come with experience. But, anyway, don't try to forge faster than a comfortable rythm.

 

[stefanj]

Aaaahhhhhhhh yes! I orderd a 5000 gr cross peen (if I remember correctly) hammer from Centaur Forge. I figure that hammer should help move the metal.

I sent the exhaust for my Aprilia Factory to get the headers ceramic coated. It must be nice living among the motorcycle industries best (MV Agusta, Ducati, Aprilia, Benelli, Moto Guzzi among a few).

 

[Alarion]

Aaaahhhhhhhh yes! I orderd a 5000 gr cross peen (if I remember correctly) hammer from Centaur Forge. I figure that hammer should help move the metal.

I sent the exhaust for my Aprilia Factory to get the headers ceramic coated. It must be nice living among the motorcycle industries best (MV Agusta, Ducati, Aprilia, Benelli, Moto Guzzi among a few).

Well... yes... even if, actually, I ride a Harley Davidson
But, it's really nice living among the car industries best: Ferrari,Maserati, Lamborghini, Alfa Romeo.
:thumbup:

 

[stefanj]

Well... yes... even if, actually, I ride a Harley Davidson
But, it's really nice living among the car industries best: Ferrari,Maserati, Lamborghini, Alfa Romeo.
:thumbup:

I wouldn't mind owning an old Padhead or a Shovelhead! I like the old smell like oil and burning gas Harleys!! I learned to ride on an old BSA Goldstar!

 

[stefanj]

Well my new hammer arrived (sledge cross peen 5000 gr). I was thinking it would be a bit smaller. I might not need something sooooooooo big, it looks like an anvil on a stick basicly, plus I recieved my new file (a good one). I'm getting excited now!

I have a question about jigs for the angle of the blade to make both sides uniform. What do you use or what did you make?? I need some ideas because my eye isn't all that great.

 

[stefanj]

Well I got the bigger hammer!!I put the boy in a bunch of safety gear and had him hold the vice grips as I hammered away (he had some good standoff so it wasn't dangerous for him).
I was able to forge a section of W2 from about three and a half (or so) inches to about 12 inches in length. It was 1.875 wide X .75 thick X 3 and 1/2" long. After a lot of beating I am at about 12 inches. It is currently sitting in the forge to anneal (SP) it.
I'll post pictures of it after I pull it out in the morning.

 

[A C Richards]

Not as worried about the boy as I am about the gas can so close to the forging station. It's good to get em started early. Trying to figure out what the welded billet is. Is that the W2 with welds running on it for patterning??

 

[stefanj]

The gas can is empty and is probably going to be my used oil can.

After doing some grinding I was measuring almost 12 and 1/2 inches and it is still pretty thick!

I welded a rod to the piece for forging (wanted to use it instead of the vice grips, but didn't work out so well) and figured "heh, why not" since I like fire and working metal so I just put some welds on my first piece of real steel. I'm not so sure I'd get any patterns out of it anyways and with grinding and everything would probably loose the patterns?

I would like to do some patterning in the blades in the future. How would you suggest doing it??


I think the next knife I make will have a strait blade. I would really like to make a large Bowie!!!!

 

[A C Richards]

The problem with welding a pattern into the blade is what is the material in the welding rod? Also it may cause damage to the parent material if not done properly. If you want patterns then look into hamon development I think I responded to a post on this from you a little bit ago. Then if that is not enough go to Damascus. There is more patterning in that that will keep you busy for a long time. If this works it would make a great post to show it off.