oil companies$$$$

rosconey2 said:
basicly the govt dropped the ball -no reason other than political greed can explain the situation we are now in-and no im not putting all the blame on king george-alot but not all
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Dude, you can't blame him. He's only president. It's not like he's the decider or anything. ;) Besides, everyone knows Cheney is the brains behind the throne. And Rummy, and Condi. And can't forget Brownie! He does a heckuva job. :foot: :D

I'm sorry, couldn't resist. I've shown my true colors! :p
 
Palm desert is what I was thinking about with the word, debacle. For a long time, people bought one of those windmills and wrote it off nicely on their tax returns. The windmills were nearly useless. I used to hunt rabbits under them.

I see now a brand new crop is in there now. Perhaps the technology has improved sufficiently. And the ones here in Montana are huge- a lot bigger than 150 ft. Maybe 400. The propeller blades are enormous also, and any bird that cannot get out of the way does not have much sympathy with me. (the blades do not spin quickly and are bright white.)

You know, some birds must die that humans live. I hit at least one a month with my truck.

Poor energy starved Calif. Wont drill offshore, wont open new refineries, and now can't even have wind power?
The Greens have entered the idiot fringe.

I still think we could burn coal if we worked harder on exhaust elmination technology.

Maybe the Nuclear reactors will start coming back....no new ones since 3 mile, right?

munk
 
rosconey2 said:
exxon mobil-made $1318 a second-
not a math major-heard it on the radio-
10 billion in 90days-wtf

and anyone else notice that since the energy meetings when bush was elected( that but a privledged few know about ) everything that makes power has gone thru the roof-

man i would like to know what was said-

basicly the govt dropped the ball -no reason other than political greed can explain the situation we are now in-and no im not putting all the blame on king george-alot but not all
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1318/s x 5.4 (government profit is 5.4 times oil company's profit)=7117.2/s for the federal government.

1318/s x 16.8 (arabs make 16.8 time the oil compayn profit) = 22,142/s

When you see numbers like 10 billion in 90 days you gotta think...

10 x 5.4 = 54 billion in 90 days in taxes.
10 x 16.8 = 168 billion dollars in 90 days in payments to arabs.

You are blaming the wrong people and looking at the wrong numbers!
 
aproy1101 said:
1318/s x 5.4 (government profit is 5.4 times oil company's profit)=7117.2/s for the federal government.

1318/s x 16.8 (arabs make 16.8 time the oil compayn profit) = 22,142/s

When you see numbers like 10 billion in 90 days you gotta think...

10 x 5.4 = 54 billion in 90 days in taxes.
10 x 16.8 = 168 billion dollars in 90 days in payments to arabs.

You are blaming the wrong people and looking at the wrong numbers!
Click to expand...

Wait, where did this whole 5.4 thing come from? I refer you to http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/gasolinepricesprimer/eia1_2005primerM.html

Note that this is a Department of Energy (.gov) site - no liberal bias there. According to them as of 2005 ($2.27 avg cost/gallon) this was the breakdown.

Dist & Marketing: 9%
Refining Costs & Profits: 19%
Fed & State Taxes: 19%
Crude Oil: 53%

Some quick calculations and you get (with today's price of $3 and $74/barrel instead of $50):

D&M: 7%
R C&P: 20%
Govt: 14%
CO: 59%

So, and I admit these are approximations, the government is less of a factor, the price of oil is more, and the oil companies are making a slightly better % profit. I did the calculations right, don't worry (I've always liked math). Also, I'd like to point out that simply because the price of oil is going up does not necessarliy mean drasticly improved profits for everyone who pumps it out of the ground. Sure, some are still pumping as easily as before, but others (including some in the middle east) are having to put more effort (and $) into getting it out of the ground.

My conculsion? Like the man said, you're blaming the wrong people and looking at the wrong numbers!

The point remains that no matter how you slice and dice it, $10 billion in profits is pretty ridiculous. Which brings up another point. While I don't really have the energy to look up the financials right now, common sense says that unless drastically more oil is being used now than a few years ago the companies are making a much greater profit margin. I know that's kind of the point, but it also means that they could reduce the price of gas if they decided (or were forced) to, without really hurting their pocketbooks.

*Edit: I checked the profitability stats, and Exxon is over 10% with Chevron and BP coming in a tad over 7.5%.
 
munk said:
The Greens have entered the idiot fringe.
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I strongly consider myself an environmentalist and there are few things that piss me off more than people who pull NIMBY with wind power. That is the worst possible form of hypocrisy. It's saying you want to save the world, but only if it doesn't mess up your view. :mad:

To sum up: *&%*#&^&$%&*#&*#&*$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Actually, Tinmaddog, a large field of enormous propellers is beautiful.



munk
 
munk said:
Actually, Tinmaddog, a large field of enormous propellers is beautiful.



munk
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It is indeed. Very impressive. But Munk, the winds are so strong in that area and there are dozens upon dozens of these structures up and down the valley and on all the ridges. Basically if a bird flies _anywhere_ below 150' in the valley or even a few hundred feet above the valley floor and try to clear the ridges they are taking a strong chance on being killed. The wind and the vortex of the blades just sucks them in. And avoiding one blade is one thing, but when behind that is another and another it becomes more of a problem.

However, I don't think it should stop the windmills, as there are tech answers. On the power lines where the condors land and bridge the wire with their wings and electrocute themselves, they have added devices that prevent them from landing on the wires in the first place.

I'm all for the wind/solar/geothermal options, but when a single reactor can do the same thing or more then I'm for that. About the only thing the French have done that I admire is take themselves completely off the fossil fuel grid when it comes to power. 100% of their power is nuclear.

Norm
 
aproy1101 said:
The 5.4 number comes from my original response to this thread in post #3. The numbers I used came from this website also linked in post #3.

http://www.conocophillips.com/newsr...swers/oil_profits.htm#Make_on_a_gallon_of_gas
Click to expand...

That page says the average oil company makes 10 cents a gallon, and the federal govt gets 18.4 - 1.84 times. As far as "the arabs," see http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html for why that's not an accurate statement. First of all, we're our own biggest oil producer - about 44% of what we use. Second, Canada and Mexico are one and two, Venezuela four and Nigeria five on the list of the countries we import oil from. Saudi Arabia is three and Iraq is Six. So it's hardly all going to "the arabs." The 16.8 number you got right, at least on the surface. Drilling oil ain't cheap though, so it's hardly like that's pure profit.

Oh, and a couple asides. On that page the company complains about the windfall tax reducing discoveries. Could be true, but honestly we're going to find it and burn it sooner or later, so who really cares? There's no way this society is going to anything but burn every drop of oil it can get its hands on, until it runs out or gets so expensive the system doesn't work anymore.
 
munk said:
Actually, Tinmaddog, a large field of enormous propellers is beautiful.
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Munk, I don't disagree. I wouldn't mind having them in my line of sight. Like Norm said - we need to figure out how to place and build them so as not to kill massive amounts of birds, but we need to build them nonetheless.
 
Animals are pretty darn smart when it comes to survival . Eventually they either learn to avoid that place or Darwin takes over and the ones that survive learn to avoid the danger .

The point with wind power is once the situation is stabilised it is a low cost nearly no emission form of energy . A few birds die to establish a relatively pollution free source of power ? How many billions of chickens are beheaded by you and I each year ?
 
Some of the things men build are kind of ...breathtaking.

The propellers in my area of Montana are so large, and relatively slow, that it is difficult to imagine birds being killed.

Norm, when you say it covers the valley, I think you mean both the 'old growth' props and the new fields, right?

Here in Montana, and back in my Dad's day in Kansas, the pheasent knows exactly where he can and cannot stand. Dad knew a barbed wire fenced expanse of land off limits to hunting. Guess where the birds were, several feet into the protected area, come hunting season? I see these pheasents by the sides of the highways all the time. Why there? You can't shoot them, and the government plants nice green things in the sump of the berms.

So, I know the Calif propellors are fast, and I sympathize. As I said though, my family's cars count for many birds each year. Multiply that by how many cars are in the US, no one talks of parking them because of it.


munk
 
its a big thing in ny right now-100 plus are going up on the tug hill platue-lots of folks bitching about the looks-hey it looks better than a nuke plant and wont kill you as fast-
they aslo have a bunch down by my mom -west edmeston area-not sure if there in here town or not but very close by-
 
Apologies in advance as I only read the first few posts....

I just heard on the news (NPR) that the oil companies(US) are actually making
profits on several fronts: the pump, the refineries, the fields they bought on speculation when oil was 20.00 barrel, there was another area but I forgot:o
 
tinmaddog said:
That page says the average oil company makes 10 cents a gallon, and the federal govt gets 18.4 - 1.84 times. As far as "the arabs," see http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...ons/company_level_imports/current/import.html for why that's not an accurate statement. First of all, we're our own biggest oil producer - about 44% of what we use. Second, Canada and Mexico are one and two, Venezuela four and Nigeria five on the list of the countries we import oil from. Saudi Arabia is three and Iraq is Six. So it's hardly all going to "the arabs." The 16.8 number you got right, at least on the surface. Drilling oil ain't cheap though, so it's hardly like that's pure profit.

Oh, and a couple asides. On that page the company complains about the windfall tax reducing discoveries. Could be true, but honestly we're going to find it and burn it sooner or later, so who really cares? There's no way this society is going to anything but burn every drop of oil it can get its hands on, until it runs out or gets so expensive the system doesn't work anymore.
Click to expand...

Wrong, wrong and even once again wrong. The site says the oil companies get 10 cents a gallon (at $3 per gallon thats 3.3%). Then it says the feds get 18% NOT 18 cents. At 3 dollars a gallon 18% is 54 cents. Which makes that 5.4 x as much as the oil companies. You've really got to read the threads to get a gist of what I'm saying before calling me out. I am an engineer and know how to run the damn numbers. It matters not, additionally, where we get the crude. The saudis are still marking their oil up 1750%. Period. I love this shit. This is like the thrid time you've called out my numbers, and each time its cuz you really haven't read what I've said.
 
Andy, remind me not to have you read the owners manual, the specs on my new china mart stereo....

I don't know if I could take the look in your eyes.



munk
 
MauiRob said:
Apologies in advance as I only read the first few posts....

I just heard on the news (NPR) that the oil companies(US) are actually making
profits on several fronts: the pump, the refineries, the fields they bought on speculation when oil was 20.00 barrel, there was another area but I forgot:o
Click to expand...

That is correct. If you look at the financial reports of the big oil companies, they divide their earnings into "upstream" and "downstream". The former refers to the production and sale of crude oil. The latter refers to the refinement and sale of petroleum distillates like gasoline. So when they release those ridiculous ads that show that only 10 cents per gallon of gasoline is oil company profit and the lion's share of the cost of gasoline is crude oil, they are only talking about profit from the downstream side. A large chunk of the "crude oil cost" per gallon of gasoline is also oil company profit.
 
Capitolism is working fine. We, currently are beholden to the oil market. We need to break the supply demand cycle for that market, then we'll be better off.


Munk, LOL.
 
Artfully Martial said:
So is capitalism broken?
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Depends on what you mean by broken. Capitalism is a compromise, one that works well in most cases, but it certainly is not some sort of sacred absolute.
 
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