OK, so school me up on this Bowie/fighter thing

[Mark Knapp]

Some Bowies have clips, some don't. Are some Bowies fighters and vise versa or are all Bowies a sub-class of fighters? I ain't up on this subject.

 

[Steve Nuckels]

Mark, I have been wondering about that myself! I will be watching this!

I always thought if the point was situated mid way in the with of the blade it is a Bowie, above the mid line a Fighter????

Steve
--------
Potomac forge

 

[Mark Knapp]

Mark, I have been wondering about that myself! I will be watching this!

I always thought if the point was situated mid way in the with of the blade it is a Bowie, above the mid line a Fighter????

Steve
--------
Potomac forge

Ahh... I can see that. Lets see what the experts say

 

[RogerP]

I'm no expert, but my view is that there is so much overlap between the genres that it more or less comes down to what the maker says it is. Sure, there are some clearcut examples. Nobody is going to look at a Big Bear subhilt and call it a bowie. Just as a big, broad-bladed southwest bowie isn't likely to be misdescribed as a fighter.

But there are a vast number of large-ish fixed blades that could reasonably be described as either. The knife in my avatar is a good example.

I don't think there will ever be a consensus on what defines a bowie, much less what distinguishes it from a fighter. People will have their views, though.

Roger

 

[jdm61]

Actually, Roger, some folks would refer to a Big Bear as a "bowie" because of the shape of the blade. Where it gets a bit funny is at the extremes. Ther are hunters with bowie style clip point blades and there are also the "original" bowies that have blade shapes that look more like a modern chefs knife or a dirk.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Here's a quote I copied from an old book where an early frontiersman (can't remember who) gave his definition of what a bowie knife should be:
"a Bowie has to be sharp enough to use as a razor, heavy enough to use as a hatchet, long enough to use as a sword and broad enough to use as a paddle".
I think his point was that a Bowie had to serve many purposes and serve them well. A fighter is a bowie designed for a more specialized purpose.

I think many of us know a fighter when we see one, however in my opinion its as much or more a feel than a look. Sleek, nimble and sharp are terms that immediately come to mind. Comfortable in hand, quick and feel as an extension of the arm.

I seem to remember a very good BF customs forum thread that addressed the differences between a bowie and a fighter from a few years ago. I believe it came about as a result of the first Annual Blade Forums Best Bowie contest and discussion as to whether fighters were eligible. Don't think we accomplished anything but I remember it being interesting.

Am I dreaming or does anyone else remember that thread?

 

[Lorien]

I see a bowie as bein a large fighter, since most are designed as such, ie; double guard, stabby point with a clip, handle inline with blade etc. But overbuilt, with thicker steel, to handle the extra stress of using the knife for clearing trail or setting up camp.

The bowie may have derived directly from butcher knife, I've found in my reading. Redesigned for life in the rugged back country. Like a criollo, but more influenced by French and English martial blade design as opposed to Spanish.

To me, a bowie is precisely American, such as the khukuri being precisely Nepalese or the golok being precisely Javanese or the barong being precisely Phillipine. Etc.

Of all my large knives, I have only one which I would classify as a bowie. And it is pure 'fighter'- but it is big.

PS. I remember that thread, Kevin, it would be cool to check it out again.

 

[RogerP]

I think many of us know a fighter when we see one, however in my opinion its as much or more a feel than a look. Sleek, nimble and sharp are terms that immediately come to mind. Comfortable in hand, quick and feel as an extension of the arm.

Funny - that's exactly what I look for in a bowie, and aptly describes the piece pictured below, which looks like a bowie to me:

It also describes just about every Harvey Dean bowie I have owned or held.

That first Best Bowie thread had a lot of discussion on what defines a bowie, but I don't recall it focussing too much on the differences between a bowie and a fighter.

And with all due respect to the frontiersman, I wouldn't be interested in any bowie long enough to be used as a sword or broad enough to be used as a paddle. I've seen plenty of swords and plenty of paddles and don't see much of what I consider to be a bowie in either.

Joe - I've never seen a Big Bear described as a bowie, but anything's possible. It just highlights my point about the blurry line separating bowie from fighter - if there's much of a line at all.

Roger

 

[raylaconico]

To me, a traditional bowie is always also a fighter but a traditional fighter is not necessarily a bowie.

 

[RogerP]

I see a bowie as bein a large fighter, since most are designed as such, ie; double guard, stabby point with a clip, handle inline with blade etc. But overbuilt, with thicker steel, to handle the extra stress of using the knife for clearing trail or setting up camp..

That seems to be a contemporary point of distinction, but I can't imagine what the source might be. Let's not forget that the bowie was made famous by an actual person. And while the specifics of his knife are not known today, I can't think of a single account - factual or fanciful - of its use to clear trails.

Roger

 

[canineforge]

Roger is correct in the amount of overlap...there is tons...I have always viewed a bowie as wider, heavier and not as fast. No historical info. to back that up, but that is my perspective.

- Joe

 

[petah]

Fighter? Bowie? Fighting Bowie? I say 3 categories.

 

[JParanee]

For me it is a size thing a knife that is below 7 inche I have a hard time calling a Bowie


A knife that is two large and wide and heavy I have a hard time calling a fighting Bowie.


Where it gets confuseing for me is what is the difference between a fighter and a gentlemens Bowie

When you are holding a fighting bowie you can feel it

it is fast so it can change direction quickly it has a sharpened clip


Some good examples are a Bagwell HB and a Dean El Diablo

 

[Kevin Jones]

Funny - that's exactly what I look for in a bowie, and aptly describes the piece pictured below, which looks like a bowie to me:

Generally speaking, I don't see bowies as sleek or as light as fighters. Bowies being a little more suited for utilitarian tasks (leverage) rather than speed.

It also describes just about every Harvey Dean bowie I have owned or held.

I find Harvey probably has more distinction from his bowies to fighters than most makers. His fighters (particularly the El Diablo) are much lighter, sleeker and nimble than his bowies which have a very good feel/balance but usually a beefier look.

That first Best Bowie thread had a lot of discussion on what defines a bowie, but I don't recall it focussing too much on the differences between a bowie and a fighter.

As I said in my post, I believe the thread I refer to was a separate spin-off thread from the Best Bowie thread.

And with all due respect to the frontiersman, I wouldn't be interested in any bowie long enough to be used as a sword or broad enough to be used as a paddle. I've seen plenty of swords and plenty of paddles and don't see much of what I consider to be a bowie in either.

I think most of us got that our frontiersman was trying to be a little humorous. The point is, early americans/frontiersman used their bowie knives for many tasks. It was more a tool than a weapon.

Joe - I've never seen a Big Bear described as a bowie, but anything's possible. It just highlights my point about the blurry line separating bowie from fighter - if there's much of a line at all.

Roger

Roger is correct in the amount of overlap...there is tons...I have always viewed a bowie as wider, heavier and not as fast. No historical info. to back that up, but that is my perspective.
- Joe

Same here Joe.

 

[Drummer]

I personally prescribe to Bagwell's definition of a bowie as laid out in his book. That is a blade length of 9-12" with a sharp concave-shaped clip and a flat ground/convex blade. The knife should also have a double guard.

The bowie knife is an evolution, therefore many knives which have been called bowies in the past, and some that still are, are not truly a bowie in the modern since of the word.

Just like a modern sports car would not have drum brakes or carboretors, a bowie needs the above features to be a really bowie knife.

A bowie knife is first a fighting knife. Any positive attributes relative to utility are a side effect to the primary use of a bowie knife; a weapon.

I could go on and on but that's the general idea.

That's my .02.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Everyone has their own definition as to what a Bowie and Fighter is and should be.
There will never be agreement and /or closure on this subject.

However, I do expect that if we could go back through American history we would find that many early Americans and frontiersman used a bowie on a regular basics, however I expect very few ever actually used one in a fight.

 

[betzner]

I always loved the quote below, which rather describes what I think about "what's a Bowie":

In 1964, Justice Potter Stewart tried to explain "hard-core" pornography, or what is obscene, by saying, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced . . . ut I know it when I see it . . . "

Bob

 

[Lorien]

That seems to be a contemporary point of distinction, but I can't imagine what the source might be. Let's not forget that the bowie was made famous by an actual person. And while the specifics of his knife are not known today, I can't think of a single account - factual or fanciful - of its use to clear trails.

Roger

Trails just get no respect! Historians don't care about trails unless people were made to suffer upon them.

If I were the Great Bowie, I don't think I'd be able to help myself from clearing trails, but I'm not, Roger, and I bow to your point.

I don't use my 'bowie' knife for clearing trails. Unless I have it on me

 

[Jon Brand]

Roger is correct in the amount of overlap...there is tons...I have always viewed a bowie as wider, heavier and not as fast. No historical info. to back that up, but that is my perspective.

- Joe

This describes exactly how I feel. Its hard for me to explain where I see the difference, but I just know it when I see it. But I feel a bowie is a bit heavier and has more belly at the tip and a fighter is a little more pointy and slick. But both have the same 2/3 of the body.

This is also just what I think and I have no historical info to back it up.

 

[ddd]

When I fantasize about a Bowie it usually looks
something like this one Larry Fuegen made for me....

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)

From "The World of Art Knives" (2010)