OK, so school me up on this Bowie/fighter thing

[RogerP]

Well those are both stunning Bob, but which is which?


Just kidding.

Roger

 

[betzner]

Well those are both stunning Bob, but which is which?


Just kidding.

Roger

I must, indeed, thank the two of you for creating the opportunity for me to post up the Bowie on this sub-forum, as well!

Best,

Bob

 

[mohd]

Some Bowies have clips, some don't. Are some Bowies fighters and vise versa or are all Bowies a sub-class of fighters? I ain't up on this subject.

I used to handle goloks, parangs and kerises then khukuris and lately bowies Anyhow every time I received a bowie and the moment I hold it in my hand suddenly I have an instinct or a feeling that strongly told me that the one in my hand is actually a fighter and it's made mainly for fighting! Holding a bowie invoke the same feeling like when I hold a keris! I don't really know why!

My first bowie made by Craig .. my feeling says that it's a fighter!

My second bowie made by Burt .. my feeling says that it's a fighter!

Next bowie made by Matt .. my feeling says it's a fighter!

Another one made by Craig .. my feeling says that it's a fighter!

And another one made by Dan .. my feeling says that it's a fighter!
(Notes: I don't have the picture so I borrowed the following picture from his website, mine has an African Blackwood handle instead of ivory)

So I'm just wondering .. what's wrong with my instinct or my feeling

Dear Roger, Kevin, Nick, Mark and all .. any comments?

mohd

 

[NickWheeler]

Oh sure Roger... had to point out that slight flaw in the theory! :foot:



I was thinking about this whole notion out in the shop last night, and realized that usually for me.... the handle is one of the main deciding factors.

Most often when I make WHAT I THINK OF as a bowie, it has a "plate guard" ferrule spacer, etc. Most often when I make WHAT I THINK OF as a fighter, it has a slightly different handle with a sculpted guard.

That's a very broad generalization, but holds pretty true with MY KNIVES (IMHO).

And also the shape and length of the clip.

I had 4 bowie-esque knives on my table in San Anton, and 1 seemed to distinctly say "bowie" to me, and the other three distinctly said, "fighter." But at the end of the day they were all somewhat similar and could easily be called by either name.

Mostly.... I let the guy who's paying me his hard earned $$$ decide what HE WANTS to call it!!!



edited to add---- mohd, there's NOTHING wrong with your instinct. That's just it... there's not really even a faint line between one or the other (IMHO) so you usually can't say, "You're wrong, that's a bowie!" or vice versa. In some cases, like if it's a dog-bone bowie then maybe...but even then I think it's up to the eye/opinion of whomever is holding the knife. Just my humble opinion! Others mileage will vary.

 

[RogerP]

Hey mohd - first of all - nice knives. I happened to own that Foster once - it's a beauty. There is a matching hunter to it floating around somewhere:

As for these knives "feeling" like fighters to you - I guess that comes back to my original point that bowies can and do feel light, fast, quick - just like a fighter. Not all of them do to be sure, but a good many of the bowies I own and have owned certainly do, because that's my preference. The Wheeler piece I posted earlier is a good example. As is the large 11"-plus bowie Nick had at San Antonio. I didn't handle that particular knife, but I suspect any adjective that you might think of as descriptive of a fighter would apply just as well to that piece - except maybe size.

The Dan Graves piece looks like a beautiful contemporary rendition of a Samuel Bell "bowie". I put that in quotations simply because those knives certainly are a step removed aesthetically from a traditional bowie. Bailey had done one for me many years ago:

Bottom line - your instinct isn't "wrong" - but maybe your perception of a bowie being a heavier, slower blade isn't necessarily a universal one. Or maybe like some here, you didn't perceive a bowie to be a fighting knife in the first place. It is.

 

[Ebbtide]

^^ Two very cool bowies up there. :thumbup:

And Ebbtide - I agree with everything you just said.

Roger

Thanks.
The only constant is change, eh?

I like the Evans Bowie and renditions of antique knives in general. By the way Bruce lives about 30 miles south of me in Booneville , MS.

Johnny

If you see Bruce in the WalMart, say hey for me

Gotta love those antiques.
Flayderman's book is a treasure trove of beautiful knives.

I also like the San Francisco style bowies, (yet another flavor of bowie lol).
Bought this one off of Bruce's belt

And one from PJ Tomes MS

 

[mrto]

I had to post this knife and whether you call it fighter or Bowie or both it is my all time favorite. The original by John Chevalier and Gil Hibbens rendition punch all my buttons when i think Bowie.

Johnny

Hi bladeymae, I have just joined the forum and have questions about the original J.D.Chevalier knife in the picture.Can you or anyone let me have more information and guide me to where I might find more pics of the original.Can anyone let me know the dimensions of the original knife,blade width,depth,length of clip,overall length and length of handle etc?

Any help will be very much appreciated I need this information as I intend to have a copy of the original made as close to the original spec's as possible.

Regards,
mrto.

 

[Gary Mulkey]

This has been a blast to hear all of the various takes on the original question. It just confirms that no answer is 100% correct or completely wrong.

I blame much of the controversy to the media writers of the day who made the term "Bowie Knife" generic. The examples of Samuel Bell & Michael Price offer very different blade shapes from what most think of as a Bowie. And if "Bowie No.1" was actually Jim Bowie's knife then a Bowie knife had no cross guard at all.

I have read old newspaper articles quoting Resin Bowie who claimed his knife (the knife used by Jim Bowie in the sandbar fight) as the original Bowie knife and described it as a hunting knife.

Sorry Mark but I can't give you an answer that works every time.

Gary

 

[Chris Meyer]

mrto, the page that describes the knife (pg 40) has some of the info you requested. Here is a shot of the text of that page.

 

[mrto]

mrto, the page that describes the knife (pg 40) has some of the info you requested. Here is a shot of the text of that page.

Hi Chris,
That's fantastic, exactly the info I have been looking for thank you very much for your help.

Regards,
Mark.






If anyone can provide additional pictures of the knife,ideally in profile that would be great too!

 

[Ebbtide]

This has been a blast to hear all of the various takes on the original question. It just confirms that no answer is 100% correct or completely wrong.

I blame much of the controversy to the media writers of the day who made the term "Bowie Knife" generic. The examples of Samuel Bell & Michael Price offer very different blade shapes from what most think of as a Bowie. And if "Bowie No.1" was actually Jim Bowie's knife then a Bowie knife had no cross guard at all.

I have read old newspaper articles quoting Resin Bowie who claimed his knife (the knife used by Jim Bowie in the sandbar fight) as the original Bowie knife and described it as a hunting knife.

Sorry Mark but I can't give you an answer that works every time.

Gary

Therein lies the rub
A hunting knife as we know it today?
Or a hunting knife as it was back then?
A knife that was used for actually dispatching the animal?
There is one account of the brothers hunting wild steer with knives and that is how Rezin cut himself and then added the guard to the next iteration of the knife.

It was also described as a big butcher knife… by the only eye witness account of the sandbar brawl.
Again, a butcher knife that we recognize today (French Chef) or a butcher's knife back then?
Ed Fowler had a link that described butcher's knives with guards back then.

Not a clear cut answer…
But one fun topic.


How about a little cowboy bowie to keep the photos going

 

[Gary Mulkey]

Therein lies the rub
A hunting knife as we know it today?
Or a hunting knife as it was back then?
A knife that was used for actually dispatching the animal?
There is one account of the brothers hunting wild steer with knives and that is how Rezin cut himself and then added the guard to the next iteration of the knife.

It was also described as a big butcher knife… by the only eye witness account of the sandbar brawl.
Again, a butcher knife that we recognize today (French Chef) or a butcher's knife back then?
Ed Fowler had a link that described butcher's knives with guards back then.

Not a clear cut answer…
But one fun topic.


How about a little cowboy bowie to keep the photos going

This has been a fun topic with no obvious answer. To me a Bowie is a fighter but a fighter not necessarily a Bowie. But once again, that's just one knife maker's opinion.

What is a hunter? Obviously different today than then. I would never take a knife like Resin Bowie's to hunting camp but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't have.

Earlier this year I had the honor of holding James Black's original "Bowie No. 1". No one will ever know if this was the original Bowie knife or not but from this knife maker's opinion it was designed as a slashing type knife and not a stabbing one. Does this mean that stabbing design type knives are not Bowies? I don't have an answer to this. They're definitely fighters.


Fun stuff!

Gary

 

[Doug C]

You've seen my Fitch JS blades before, thanks to Gary Graley !
John called the top one a Bowie and the bottom two, Fighters.

There are also Bowie-like Camp knives, usually but not always single lugged guards that are very cool.

Doug

 

[Mark Knapp]

It's nice to see this thread up again, I learn more every time I read in it. It's also nice to see all those Bowies that are not necessarily fighters and some fighters that are definitely not Bowies, but some that are. All good stuff.

 

[Doug C]

My first Matt Lamey, 8" of L6 and stabilized koa handle.
Bowie or Fighter ?
Bought on secondary market here and can't remember..lol

Doug

 

[Elefantener]

I'm no expert, but my view is that there is so much overlap between the genres that it more or less comes down to what the maker says it is. Sure, there are some clearcut examples. Nobody is going to look at a Big Bear subhilt and call it a bowie. Just as a big, broad-bladed southwest bowie isn't likely to be misdescribed as a fighter.

But there are a vast number of large-ish fixed blades that could reasonably be described as either. The knife in my avatar is a good example.

I don't think there will ever be a consensus on what defines a bowie, much less what distinguishes it from a fighter. People will have their views, though.

Roger

[video=youtube;QJ6PebrVhb4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ6PebrVhb4[/video]

 

[Maine1]

Bowies have some common traits, but can lean more toward a fighter or a general use big knife, IMO.

A well made fighting bowie is about as advanced a figher as one can get with regard to actual use.

good thread, had fun reading the opinions of other makes on bowies. Don't fight guys, the bowie universe is big enough for all of us.

 

[Kohai999]

My first Matt Lamey, 8" of L6 and stabilized koa handle.
Bowie or Fighter ?
Bought on secondary market here and can't remember..lol

Doug

Fighter....definition of.....hints of bowie does not make a bowie.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[kevin -the professor]

There are two videos that will be of interest to those who care about this thread (and especially Bowies). They are from Kevin Harvey and on the ABS Youtube site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIPOjwn9tcQ&list=UUaWTCbMZUPHicSJNdZsH-dQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZUpdi0_IDc&list=UUaWTCbMZUPHicSJNdZsH-dQ&index=4

hope y'all like these.
kc

 

[rnbtexas]

Thanks for the education and the great pictures with the accompanying discussion. Great thread.