Okay, now I'm convinced...

Just an FYI, the grind isn't all that thick - even compared to some well accepted "slicers" in the production world.

Also, the slicer grind XMs aren't any appreciable amount thinner than the spanto at the cutting edge. In fact they are almost identical.


nccole said:
The reason I have not seriously looked into buying a second-hand one (not a qualifying direct from Rick buyer here) is the design of all but one knife seem to not be very conducive to EDC. The only knife I would consider is the 3" slicer grind. I do not understand wanting a knife with such a thick blade you cannot slice through anything. I doubt anyone buying these knives is using them as a sharpened mini crowbar anyway. I have never used one, but I have compared how well a thin blade slices to how well a thick blade slices, and just do not see myself wanting to carry it, and right now I am buying knives that I intend to use. That may change over time and then maybe I will pick one up to fondle and appreciate, but for now unless I see a reasonably priced not massively sized slicer grind, I will appreciate his craft from a distance.
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CrimsonTideShooter said:
Just an FYI, the grind isn't all that thick - even compared to some well accepted "slicers" in the production world.

Also, the slicer grind XMs aren't any appreciable amount thinner than the spanto at the cutting edge. In fact they are almost identical.
Click to expand...

I understand that the cutting edge may be about the same, but if you are slicing through something, doesn't the thickness at the spine and its resistance on the material as you are going through it play a big role on how well the knife cuts? Isn't the reason why most dislike scandi grinds? I am no expert, just a little reading, common sense, and a little experience. It just seems like his knives are over-built for people who will ultimately baby them. I guess if I wanted a knife that heavy duty, I would get a fixed blade and pair it with a Spyderco for slicing and more EDC roles. If I did get a 3" slicer (with a flipper too), I would use the crap out of it and never sell it!
 
I thought it was Economics 101, Supply and Demand. When there is a small supply and large demand, the price goes up. If it is beyond what you are willing to pay for it, don't buy it. But why come here and whine about it?

I don't think that it is gouging either. If some one is willing to pay an inflated price on a knife or any other "luxury" item, more power to them, they are not forced to buy them.

I would like to have a new Corvette ZR1, but they are too expensive for me, but I'm not going on a Corvette forum and whining that they are too expensive.

If I win the lottery, yeah right, then I will buy the ZR1 and all kinds of over priced stuff including knives!
 
Well of course the primary grind also plays a role. The point of my post was to debunk the well accepted theory that XMs (spantos in particular) don't cut well, because they actually cut very well give their beefiness.

You would be shocked if I named some of the knives that the spanto grind out cut (when it comes to how much force taken to push through 3/8 inch rope). Some are well accepted slicers like I said before. It's all about the grind and how it is executed. :)


nccole said:
I understand that the cutting edge may be about the same, but if you are slicing through something, doesn't the thickness at the spine and its resistance on the material as you are going through it play a big role on how well the knife cuts? Isn't the reason why most dislike scandi grinds? I am no expert, just a little reading, common sense, and a little experience. It just seems like his knives are over-built for people who will ultimately baby them. I guess if I wanted a knife that heavy duty, I would get a fixed blade and pair it with a Spyderco for slicing and more EDC roles. If I did get a 3" slicer (with a flipper too), I would use the crap out of it and never sell it!
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Magnaminous_G said:
... that I never, ever want to own a Hinderer or whatever other "high-end" folder. I've stated my opinion on this topic here before. To be honest, the more I've actually learned about knives and developed my own appreciation for what makes a knife great, the more my opinion on high end folders has softened considerably as I've used and gained experience with different brands and styles of knives. Believe it or not, I've actually even started to play with the idea of possibly seeing if I could appreciate a high end folder myself. Two things prevent me from pulling the trigger: A) The reality that I know for a fact I'll never carry or use it, although it might be a nice addition to a collection that I can appreciate by myself in my home. And B)...

My experience of today. For poops and giggles, I decided to go on Hinderer's site today to check out these XM-18s that people esteem so highly. Hmm... very nice! Beautiful even! Okay, so let me see what the fuss is all about. I know they're great and unique, so let's check out what the prices are. No store. Okay, looks like he works with distributors. No problem, let me check their sites out. And then it dawned on me as I saw that there was zero availability and a long list of quasi one-off Hinderers that were marked in bold red "SOLD"... dawned on me that this is a familiar game: essentially a racket for fan boys (yup, I used that word) who wait in front of their computers all day long, desperate to pay whatever the heck the price is just to get one, hoping rapturously that maybe they'll have the extraordinary privilege of paying out the ass for a grail knife today. If no luck today, well no worries... They'll wait all day tomorrow, frantically refreshing their browsers, hoping one shows up.

It reminds me of Atwood's tools, for those of you who are also EDC nuts. Sorry, I'm not playing that game. Not no, but hell no. That's why I don't own any Atwood tools. I've got a few by Schrade and Boker that are fantastic and widely available. Are they as nice as Atwood tools? No, of course not. But because of Atwood's legion of fan boys, nothing is ever available, and the demand of these voracious fan boys warps the market for his tools, driving the prices into the stratosphere, making it almost impossible to get one, creating a virtual racket in the secondary market, and sending Mr. Atwood laughing all the way to the bank. I now realize that this Hinderer fellow benefits/suffers from the same phenomenon. His knives may be perfect, and I'm sure they are, but there's no way in hell I'm going to play that game.
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Okay.
 
I have heard about these raffles at the shows Mr. Hinderer attends but have also heard that there are "dealers' who will "stuff" the box with/by other members of their entourage,at times gaining multiple knives. I've read that some turn around and resell them at the very same show! True or not,I have NEVER seen a XM anywhere near the supposed 385 srp. Additionally, I know quite a few LEO's as EMt (mu brother in law is one) and I have spoken to them about Ricks knives and have yet to meet one who has even heard of them. Of course, I'm just simple folk and not dealing with LEO's or EMT's from major metropolises like NYC but nonetheless,this is the actual case.

They are beautiful,overbuilt,tank tough knives and from what I understand Rick is a pillar of society and a very altruistic individual. I believe he has nothing to do with what the market commands for his knives. As long as there are people willing to pay the price for quality craftsmanship, then the market will flourish.

What IS retarded is forking 1/2 million bucks for something absurd like a Maybach or Bentley;yet ,folks do.

Alfaholic said:
It'a fairly obvious that you have learned very little and have no understanding of the custom knife market or of market forces in general.

Indeed you are angry because the knives are well made and popular. Well........news tip........everything in life that is worth having requires some effort and sacrifice. Sometimes that effort is in time and patience, sometimes in cash. Sometimes both.

You want a Hinderer direct from Rick? He attends several shows a year where he does a draw for the knives he has. Go to one and put your card in. No guarantee you will get one but that is life.........Supply and demand.

Want one fast? Make a post in the WTB section and you will receive replies. However expect to pay over the odds for it because the seller who sacrificed time or cash to acquire their's wants to see a return.

To come here and whine because you can't find one at a price you are willing to pay is pathetic.........
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Magnaminous_G said:
... that I never, ever want to own a Hinderer or whatever other "high-end" folder. I've stated my opinion on this topic here before. To be honest, the more I've actually learned about knives and developed my own appreciation for what makes a knife great, the more my opinion on high end folders has softened considerably as I've used and gained experience with different brands and styles of knives. Believe it or not, I've actually even started to play with the idea of possibly seeing if I could appreciate a high end folder myself. Two things prevent me from pulling the trigger: A) The reality that I know for a fact I'll never carry or use it, although it might be a nice addition to a collection that I can appreciate by myself in my home. And B)...

My experience of today. For poops and giggles, I decided to go on Hinderer's site today to check out these XM-18s that people esteem so highly. Hmm... very nice! Beautiful even! Okay, so let me see what the fuss is all about. I know they're great and unique, so let's check out what the prices are. No store. Okay, looks like he works with distributors. No problem, let me check their sites out. And then it dawned on me as I saw that there was zero availability and a long list of quasi one-off Hinderers that were marked in bold red "SOLD"... dawned on me that this is a familiar game: essentially a racket for fan boys (yup, I used that word) who wait in front of their computers all day long, desperate to pay whatever the heck the price is just to get one, hoping rapturously that maybe they'll have the extraordinary privilege of paying out the ass for a grail knife today. If no luck today, well no worries... They'll wait all day tomorrow, frantically refreshing their browsers, hoping one shows up.

It reminds me of Atwood's tools, for those of you who are also EDC nuts. Sorry, I'm not playing that game. Not no, but hell no. That's why I don't own any Atwood tools. I've got a few by Schrade and Boker that are fantastic and widely available. Are they as nice as Atwood tools? No, of course not. But because of Atwood's legion of fan boys, nothing is ever available, and the demand of these voracious fan boys warps the market for his tools, driving the prices into the stratosphere, making it almost impossible to get one, creating a virtual racket in the secondary market, and sending Mr. Atwood laughing all the way to the bank. I now realize that this Hinderer fellow benefits/suffers from the same phenomenon. His knives may be perfect, and I'm sure they are, but there's no way in hell I'm going to play that game.
Click to expand...

why would you let one experience sour everything?

you even say it yourself, you went on his site for poops and giggles. admitting you just wanted to complain, that you knew exactly what the situation was beforehand. yes, it sucks that many non factory made knife makers have long waiting lists and legions of admirers. you may be surprised, but its estimated that only about 2% of custom knife makers can live off of knife making. if rick and atwood truly wanted to "laugh all the way to the bank" then they could be devious. i dont say far more devious, because i dont believe their is a single reason to believe any knife maker is somehow rigging his production to gain profit. rick doesnt sell his folders for the second hand market price, you know. in fact neither does say ernest emerson, whose folders usually go for 3 times his asking price. demand is far greater then supply. sorry you dont like reality.

open up your horizons. their is nothing that is so special about an xm18 that is just heads and shoulders above everything out there. i used to always always ALWAYS want an xm18, but i never had any luck. i was lucky enough to get on a list for a custom demko, which ive had for over a year, and my desire for an xm18 is gone.

if you decide to close out your mind to higher end knives, the only thing youll be sure of is you wont try one out.
 
How about work harder and buy/use the knives you want instead of assuming those who buy more expensive stuff than you do so because they are less discerning than you are.
 
Saw the thread and thought the topic was interesting, but wasn't expecting to see what I did, LOL.

I'll admit that I likely won't ever own a Hinderer knife. Maybe a Hinderer designed knife (those 0560s sure do look nice!), but not an XM-18, etc. However, my primary reason isn't because you have to wait for them, it's simply because I can't see myself using an $800+ knife (or a $400+ one), unless I somehow found myself working on a two-way range where my life was on the line and the whole "what's your life worth" question comes into effect. Even then, I think I could find enough knives in the $250 or less range that would handle my needs just fine. If I'm going to drop $800+ on something, it'll be another firearm that can reach out FAR beyond a knife's range and still get the job done.

As for the wait? No problem there, for me. Plenty of quality firearms manufactures, as well as custom parts shops for motorcycles, cars, aircraft, etc. will have a decent wait list. Smaller companies that make an amazing product that sells will usually have a hard time keeping stock, so that's a non-issue for me.
 
jakeyjake4528 said:
why would you let one experience sour everything?

you even say it yourself, you went on his site for poops and giggles. admitting you just wanted to complain, that you knew exactly what the situation was beforehand. yes, it sucks that many non factory made knife makers have long waiting lists and legions of admirers. you may be surprised, but its estimated that only about 2% of custom knife makers can live off of knife making. if rick and atwood truly wanted to "laugh all the way to the bank" then they could be devious. i dont say far more devious, because i dont believe their is a single reason to believe any knife maker is somehow rigging his production to gain profit. rick doesnt sell his folders for the second hand market price, you know. in fact neither does say ernest emerson, whose folders usually go for 3 times his asking price. demand is far greater then supply. sorry you dont like reality.

open up your horizons. their is nothing that is so special about an xm18 that is just heads and shoulders above everything out there. i used to always always ALWAYS want an xm18, but i never had any luck. i was lucky enough to get on a list for a custom demko, which ive had for over a year, and my desire for an xm18 is gone.

if you decide to close out your mind to higher end knives, the only thing youll be sure of is you wont try one out.
Click to expand...

Well, if a person is sour to begin with, it really doesn't take much to get them a little further downstream.
 
I personally have a hard time using a knife that cost more than $120. I'd be afraid to pull a hind out of the box, let alone use it. I buy knives to use them, so I wouldn't purchase a knife I would be afraid to damage. Thats just me though.
 
If I could afford an XM I would buy it and use it. But I can't, so I don't worry about what others pay for theirs.
 
Magnaminous_G said:
... that I never, ever want to own a Hinderer or whatever other "high-end" folder. I've stated my opinion on this topic here before. To be honest, the more I've actually learned about knives and developed my own appreciation for what makes a knife great, the more my opinion on high end folders has softened considerably as I've used and gained experience with different brands and styles of knives. Believe it or not, I've actually even started to play with the idea of possibly seeing if I could appreciate a high end folder myself. Two things prevent me from pulling the trigger: A) The reality that I know for a fact I'll never carry or use it, although it might be a nice addition to a collection that I can appreciate by myself in my home. And B)...

My experience of today. For poops and giggles, I decided to go on Hinderer's site today to check out these XM-18s that people esteem so highly. Hmm... very nice! Beautiful even! Okay, so let me see what the fuss is all about. I know they're great and unique, so let's check out what the prices are. No store. Okay, looks like he works with distributors. No problem, let me check their sites out. And then it dawned on me as I saw that there was zero availability and a long list of quasi one-off Hinderers that were marked in bold red "SOLD"... dawned on me that this is a familiar game: essentially a racket for fan boys (yup, I used that word) who wait in front of their computers all day long, desperate to pay whatever the heck the price is just to get one, hoping rapturously that maybe they'll have the extraordinary privilege of paying out the ass for a grail knife today. If no luck today, well no worries... They'll wait all day tomorrow, frantically refreshing their browsers, hoping one shows up.

It reminds me of Atwood's tools, for those of you who are also EDC nuts. Sorry, I'm not playing that game. Not no, but hell no. That's why I don't own any Atwood tools. I've got a few by Schrade and Boker that are fantastic and widely available. Are they as nice as Atwood tools? No, of course not. But because of Atwood's legion of fan boys, nothing is ever available, and the demand of these voracious fan boys warps the market for his tools, driving the prices into the stratosphere, making it almost impossible to get one, creating a virtual racket in the secondary market, and sending Mr. Atwood laughing all the way to the bank. I now realize that this Hinderer fellow benefits/suffers from the same phenomenon. His knives may be perfect, and I'm sure they are, but there's no way in hell I'm going to play that game.
Click to expand...

Hey good one, made me laugh.......it's a joke right? Did you come to all those conclusions just sitting in front of your computer? We all have a right to want and have what we want. I have one Hinderer and one CRK, I like them both and carry and use them.....sorry that upsets you so much.

Make it a great day.
 
emopunker2004 said:
ngbbs4d29ed8585ad1.jpg
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He jelly
 
Yes, very jelly. That was my whole point. It just enrages me when I think of all the successful studs who have one. This morning, I smashed my mirror in; I couldn't look at the guy with no Hinderer.
 
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