OKC knives bend

The blade appears to be bending behind the shoulder. As has been stated, this is the most critical point of the knife. By critical, I feel that if the knife did not snap at this junction, it is fine within the design specs. I'll take a softer tang over a brittle one any day of the week.

One can argue whether a knife should bend or hold the weight of a man or should survive being thrown by a stupid teenager (see my story above), but when the Engineer gives a reason as to WHY the blade behaves a certain way it's good enough for me. OKC makes a fantastically tough and very affordable hard use knife. I would have no problem what so ever relying on one in an emergency situation. If the knife cuts and can stand up to normal survival tasks (mild batonning, digging, twisting), I don't see an issue of it suffering a bend when stressed as such. A blade has two other options in such a situation: Don't bend (requires a knife that is thicker and/or more expensive) or break. Since we can assume that because OKC is a mature manufacturer who has filled orders for government contracts as well as provided the public tough and affordable blades for a long time, I am willing to wager that the way their knives are built have been so to maximized durability and value.

Would it be great if it didn't bend? Of course. However, for $60 you are getting a quality American-made product that will get the job done.
 
Steve6387 said:
No disrespect intended, but given all the info available in the form of reviews and videos, and even the company vp of engineering who is good enough to comment on these things... I fail to see the point in working hard trying to bend a perfectly good knife.

I mean my car reportedly has airbags that will go off in the case of a front end collision... I think I'll take the manufacturers word on that one.
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the question is why some of my ontario knives are easy to get bend and there is no sign of flex.
yes and yes Toooj did great ,but the shoulders are not act as spring ,they bend like noodles.
 
and there are okc knives flex well , my 498 flexed so well like real spring.
why ? my 498 is a defective knife ?
 
dingy said:
the question is why some of my ontario knives are easy to get bend and there is no sign of flex.
yes and yes Toooj did great ,but the shoulders are not act as spring ,they bend like noodles.
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Shoulder not act as spring as not treated to act like spring. Treated to act as noodle, not spring and not glass.
 
There are quite a few brands out there with hidden tangs that will wilt like a noodle (New and old).

This should not happen, and is not acceptable, in my mind.
 
Toooj said:
If we hardened the entire tang, there would be warpage that we would not be able to remove from the tang and your knife would most likely be bent and you would not be able to straighten it. A soft tang allows us to tweek the tang for straightness.
Paul Tsujimoto
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This is where you lost me, I don't understand how or why after hardening a foot of 1/4" thick 1095 in a knife like the Marine Raider, that trying to harden those last couple inches would risk warpage?

I have an excellent RD4-Bush that's one of the full tang knives with micarta scales, do you also leave parts of those knives soft too?

Trust me, I have a love affair with Ontario knives and I hate to think of my beloved Spec-plus knives having soft tangs, and even more important, please tell me the crown jewel of my OKC knives, my beautiful Chimera, does not have a softy under that skin.
 
texpat said:
This is where you lost me, I don't understand how or why after hardening a foot of 1/4" thick 1095 in a knife like the Marine Raider, that trying to harden those last couple inches would risk warpage?

I have an excellent RD4-Bush that's one of the full tang knives with micarta scales, do you also leave parts of those knives soft too?

Trust me, I have a love affair with Ontario knives and I hate to think of my beloved Spec-plus knives having soft tangs, and even more important, please tell me the crown jewel of my OKC knives, my beautiful Chimera, does not have a softy under that skin.
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This is pure speculation on my part as I have no dog in this fight, but it may have to do with hidden tangs found in some of the thinner stock knives. I also think that the rubber handle (or stacked leather in some cases) doesn't combat lateral stress as well as a solid slab. Since the bends happen south of the shoulder as they should, the reinforcement of the slabs on a full tang may make it a bit less likely to bend.

Please keep in mind lots of great and classic knives keep the tangs soft. Take the traditional khukuri, the tip of the blade may be about 53 Rockwell, the sweet spot might be 56-58, the majority of the rest is in the low 50s. The tang is left way softer than that to absorb shock. What keeps the khuk from bending is that the thickness of the stock. Actually, the majority of failures I see with khuks isn't a bending at the tang but a fracture at the shoulder when the kamis (traditional bladesmiths) get in a hurry and splash water at the junction and harden it.

I wouldn't worry about the Chimera. I have only seen one failure on the knife and that was at the at the junction of the thread that holds on the "crusher". Said failure only happened after a good amount of abusive "testing". I am actually planning on buying one for my birthday next month.

I wouldn't let a soft tang bother you. There are tons of knives that have served and are still serving the military. I haven't heard much in the way of failure regarding the knives carried in WWII. Just use the knife as a knife, and I doubt you'll ever have a failure:)
 
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OP,

I mean this literally, not to be rude.

Dude, you have too much time on your hands. Just use your knives, instead of squandering all that time speculating potential and theoretical ways your knife might fail.

I understand the curiosity, and interest. But gear people, especially knife people, tend to spend asinine amounts of energy on 'what if's' and worst case theories.

You got a ton of cool responses here, but your insistence to keep going is bordering on dead horse territory!

I advise to let it go and enjoy your tools the way they were made. Go camping or something man!

Tooj, OKC, thank you guys for being engaged in this community. I can think of a couple highly worshipped makers who won't so much as peep a response, even when a customer has a legitimate problem.

I don't own an Ontario yet, but have been planning one for a long time, with good reason.

You guys, and the community here rock!

Thank you.
 
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I was reading my copy of "The Tactical Knife" by James Morgan Ayres again yesterday. There are many places in the book where he talks about hammering knives into trees point first and then standing on them. (Caution: this is extremely dangerous. You can shred your leg if the knife breaks. And the knife might also shatter while hammering it into wood.) He says he prefers knives that don't bend, but he also says that "it's not a deal breaker" if it does bend. You have to look first at the intended use of the knife. If it's meant as a "survival" knife, then it's more important for it not to bend. If it's not meant as a survival knife, it's definitely less important.

Looking at the particular knives the OP managed to bend, I'd say those are not really survival knives. The SP5 and SP10 are definitely more suited to survival and, of course, these are the ones he couldn't bend. That said, the only time bending will make a difference in survival is if you are using two knives to climb out of a deadfall trap or hole. Or if you have to use a knife to stab into the ground or ice to stop your fall or to prevent being swept away downstream.

Anyway, Ayres' point is that you have to know your knife. Know its limitations before you use it in extreme situations. Don't exceed those limits. To that end, I suppose the OP may have a point. He wants to know his knives' limitations.

For extreme situations, it's for exactly these kind of reasons that a full tang, sandwich handled knife is preferred. At least a 1/4 inch thick.
 
This makes me wonder if the current Marine Corps style knife made by Kabar, is made with an even heat treated blade/tang. If so, it may explain why I have heard where some Kabars have snapped at the blade/tang transition area. I'm thinking maybe the Ontario would have likely not have broken under similar stress, but instead maybe have bent. I mean, although the Kabar and Ontario knives are based on the same basic design, Ontario was/is still following the specs that the US military demanded. But Kabar, (not making them under government contracts anymore), could have chosen to heat treat them differently (an even heat treating throughout the entire length of the steel). Just speculating, but maybe plausible.
 
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My guess is that we are enamored with the story of the Marine Fighting Knife. At the end of the day, it was designed as a government grade utility knife that did it's best to balance a robust build with cost effective manufacture.
I have had a Ka-Bar, non government manufactured circa mid 1990s, that bent at the tang when I threw it as a teenager. I bent it back and it's been fine since. That said, I may have been able to break it had I tried to. You can only make a tang so thin as to be cost effective yet strong enough for anticipated use. The design is fine the way it is. As I've said, I'd rather have a tang that takes a bend over snapping.

My guess is that Ka-Bar is probably making them just like Ontario is in regard to the tang being left soft. I would like to know which model of Ka-Bar broke (tang thickness, blade length/weight, steel type (D2, etc)). Much like the Ontario knives, I've seen way more of them bend than break, which I prefer.

As to why never heard a lot of stories about this style of knife failing during WWII: 1) I don't think bending at the tang is a failure. Most soldiers in those days were practical folks. If you shove a 7" blade under the top of an ammo crate and boot down on it causing the crate lid to open 4" and the handle to bend 1/2", you probably just flip it over, finish the job and then pry it back true when you were done. It's a tool.

2) Considering the knives it was replacing like the M-3, I'm sure most soldiers appreciated the utility of the knife regardless of the design's nature. I love the M-3, but the Marine fighter is way more useful.

I think the irony is that we just expect more out of knives these days compared what soldiers required in the 40s. It must have the hardest super steel, it must be able to hammered through a steel drum without damage, you must be able to clamp it in a vice and allow a 300lb man to do pull ups from the handle, etc.

These are all nice properties to have, but if you dropped me out into wild with nothing, I would view a piece of 1095 sharpened on a rock and wrapped in a duct tape handle as a Godsend.

I'd gladly have any Ontario I'd I were hunkered in a foxhole.
 
PocketKnifeJimmy said:
This makes me wonder if the current Marine Corps style knife made by Kabar, is made with an even heat treated blade/tang. If so, it may explain why I have heard where some Kabars have snapped at the blade/tang transition area. I'm thinking maybe the Ontario would have likely not have broken under similar stress, but instead maybe have bent. I mean, although the Kabar and Ontario knives are based on the same basic design, Ontario was/is still following the specs that the US military demanded. But Kabar, (not making them under government contracts anymore), could have chosen to heat treat them differently (an even heat treating throughout the entire length of the steel). Just speculating, but maybe plausible.
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i did the same bending game on kabar knives , and some of them bend very easy .
my kabar1217 ,1250 and mk1 bend like noodle .
 
One of the issues I see is that the bends are all side-to-side. That's where you're bending against the flat part of the steel which I would think would be likely to bend. But in real life, knives very rarely see lateral stress like that, unless it's prying open a crate or some other such nonsense/abuse.
I'd bet good money you can't bend the knife if you apply pressure top-to-bottom (or bottom-to-top) as would be representative of the stresses likely to be on the knife if, lets say cutting stuff... which is one of those things knives do. Or even chopping stuff which is another thing knives can do.
 
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