Old file prices

S

Soilarch

Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
297
Okay, I KNOW you can get them free, and that many of you may laugh at paying for old files. But I'm not ready to make an order of stock material and haven't a clue where to find stuff here around school. (We have a farm back home...bunch of old equipment lying around...and the metal pieces that get stuck in the ground HAVE to be good steel or they vaporize after a single season.)

I know I can look up the material prices but since I'm new to this I need it broke down in a sort of per-knife cost to any type of comparison. Local flea market has a bunch of files. Mostly Nicholson's and the going rate is $2.00 each. Is this an acceptable price hike over just ordering W1 or W2?
 
There's a used tool store near me that i typically pick up my old simmonds and nicholson files for 25c to 50c each, 2$ is expensive.
 
I get them at pawn shops for between .50c and a buck.
 
The cost of good new steel is so low, that it better to go with a known steel. Files can be made out of many different steels. Some are even case carburized, which wouldn't make a good knife steel. The 5160 being offered in the "for sale" threads is a great buy. It's also a great "first time makers" steel. Very forgiving and easy to work with and will make a great knife. With the minumum purchase of 5 sticks you can get about 40 knives out of it, via stock removal methods. If you forge, you can get upwards of 60 knives out of it. The cost of 5 sticks I think is $30 plus shipping. I forge and I'm going to be getting the 5 stick minimum order, costing me around $60. This equates to about $1 per blade for steel cost for me, since I forge. It's about $1.50 per blade for stock removal methods.

In addition, your shipping costs would be "significantly" lower than mine, since you live only 1/5 of the distance away from where they are shipping from, than where I'm at on the west coast!

I'm not a believer in "unknown" steel types. It would suck to put hours and hours in on your first knife and then not be able to get it hardened.
 
For a first knife I would reccommend the 1084 that Mace and Aldo also have on the for sale thread, with O-1 as a second choice, I have been teaching newbies with some of the 1084 that I got from them, not realising it was such wonderful stuff until I ran out of O-1 one night and made one of my own blades out of it instead of just a demo piece quick to show my students how to do it. Stuff forges beautifully, welds easily, heat treats easily, and finishes clean. I used to use files (my first couple of blades were Nicholson files) and they were good steel, but one of them had cracks that I found after i had a couple hours of grinding in. By the time you have hours and consumables into a blade the steel is the cheapest part of the blade (unless you are buying damascus billets by the inch) Do yourself a favor and get new steel of known quality.

-Paqe
 
Having a bunch of old Farrier rasp, typically they last 30 horses new. Resharpening gets a little more use. But the pile stacks up, you are welcome to a few just for shipping cost, if you want?

But I do agree, there is better steel to make a knife with. Farrier rasp are course on the business side, a lot of stock has to come off to get to the smooth steel. Not worth it in my opinion.
 
Nicholson files make excellent blades that hold an edge very well. I used them for many years and got nothing but praise from my customers. I used a simple heat treat in a forge and got great results. I did soften the backs with the edge in water after the initial tempering. $2.00 may be a tad high, but you can be assured that it is very fine steel. Simmons is also good, and I am not sure what either is acually made of, or if one is better than the other, but $2.00 is a small investment for a great blade. I would suggest that you try one, then decide about moving on to something else. The extra carbides in the file increase the edge holding over 1084. Maybe not a lot, but some.
 
I use to be able to pick up old Nicolsons for around $.25 to $.50 at my local fleamarket. Then another amateur maker told the dealers that guys were buying them to make knives. Now they are asking $2 to $3 (one old guy asked $6)! I can't win for losing.
 
It was nice to deal w/ Kelly Cupples for buying steel. You can get his link at the "steel" section @ ellis knifeworks. He can ship smaller quantities cut down to fit in a USPS flat rate box. Your per knife cost will be higher by a couple dollars, but you will be using a known steel, so you can heat treat it properly, and gain experience working with that particular steel type.
 
Alright guys, thanks. I checked the pawn shop in town. LOL!!!!
1) Didn't have any files
2) They wanted $30 bucks for a old crosscut saw...with a "sloppy" handle
So they're not gonna be much help.

I'll likely pick up one or two files from the flea market and stake a stab at this knife making business. (was that a joke?) But I'll definitely put the idea of "stockpiling" old files out of mind.

Thanks.
 
Good American files can make good blades, but you need to make sure there not case hardened. Quench one end and see if it snaps like glass in a vise. If so you can make a decent knife out of it.

That said I wouldn't screw with them unless you can get them for little or nothing. Say no more than a 1$ at the outside. Even then for a mono steel knife I prefer a known steel so I don't have to tinker with each and every heat treat. I do pick up old files now and then to play around with, and save all my old ones. Most of the time I just mix them up in damascus. I have made hard face inserts out of some. I throw very little steel away, never know when I'll find a use for it.
 
I sent this e-mail to Copper tool makers of Nicholson files.

Sir
I'm an part time blacksmith and a member of several blacksmithing organizations. The subject of what steel is this made of is of great debate among the smiths and knife makers is never ending. I have used nothing but Nicholson files in my shop for 25 years and an very happy with your products. Like most blacksmiths I love to recycle old steel, and have made many fine knives out of my worn-out files. So my question is.
What type of steel is used in Nicholson files?
This information is for the use of blacksmiths and student blacksmith for the refinement of our craft.
Thank you for your time Mike.
 
Bikermike, I've "heard" that most are W-2 or W-1. Now, is that correct, or is that what nicholson files (the by-far most common in my area) are? You've obligated yourself to let us know when you find out!!!lol

I've seen a few knives that left some of the "toothing" on the blade of the knife. Not sure how practical that is but it looked great.
 
I contacted Cooper Tools awhile back concerning their Nicholson files, and they advised me that they use 1095 for their mill-bastard files.
- Mitch
 
I just sent this E-mail today and its Sunday so when/if they answer I will definitely pass on what they say.
I have read many times that the steel used in Nicholson files was 1095. A few times that it was W-1/2 and once I read that it was a low alloy, high carbon, steel (1095?) No one has said where there info came from.
What I do know is that for 30+ years I have used my old files to make good knives.

I guess Troop already answered the question.
 
I have a box of simmons files (small ones) that a fencing student gets for me as he works in a metallurgy lab where they can make one cut per side per file then they scrap the files. the simmons files are case hardened. I can bend them into curves as necessary for getting to difficult spots in sword guards, try doing that with a Nicholson and it will snap!

If the Nicholsons are 1095, save yourself the niusance of working around the teeth and file shape limitations, just buy some 1095 from Aldo.

-Page
 
I received a phone call from Copper tools today. The Representative who talked to me informed me that while the exact composition of the metal in Nicholson files was proprietary there general line of files could be treated like W-1 W-2. There farrier files were of a slightly different steel and could be treated like 1095.
 
sunshadow said:
If the Nicholsons are 1095, save yourself the niusance of working around the teeth and file shape limitations, just buy some 1095 from Aldo.
Click to expand...

I know a 15 year old who is buying an anvil with paper rough money, and a young service man who is hoping for enough of a tax return to get contact and idler wheels for his home built grinder. To these guys a piece of free steel is a treasure.

If you forge you are not limited by the shape of the file.
 
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