"Old Knives"

[pmew]

They are also useful to maintain the slabs. I'll post more explanation tomorrow.

(from "couteaux de poche" by D. Pascal)

Jolipapa,

Thanks for the diagram

 

[Jolipapa]

Jolipapa,

Thanks for the diagram

You're welcome!

 

[Jack Black]

Jolipapa,

Thanks for the diagram

+1 :thumbup:

I see those small Japanese folders in the market quite often, the build is similar to the much bigger Hobo knives from the same period, nice collection Yar :thumbup:

 

[Jack Black]

I'd be grateful for your opinions on this one folks. I picked it up in a rather filthy state last week, but while it's seen some use, it's in very good condition, and nicely made I think (note the tapering springs, which all have very strong pulls, for example). The stamp is so low on the tang that I'm unable to read it, let alone photograph it. It has the letters S-B with a number underneath, which ends in 3. I'm thinking French My usual apologies for the poor photographs

 

[Yar]

+1 :thumbup:

I see those small Japanese folders in the market quite often, the build is similar to the much bigger Hobo knives from the same period, nice collection Yar :thumbup:

Thanks!

 

[Will Power]

High quality tools on that Horn handled knife, Jack. Very good finish on the backsprings too, I tend to think it more German.

Thanks, Will

 

[Jack Black]

High quality tools on that Horn handled knife, Jack. Very good finish on the backsprings too, I tend to think it more German.

Thanks for that Will, the screwdriver is very similar to one on an old Carl Schlieper Duncan kindly gifted me, the spike too. What do you think to that tang stamp though?

 

[Jolipapa]

I'd be grateful for your opinions on this one folks. I picked it up in a rather filthy state last week, but while it's seen some use, it's in very good condition, and nicely made I think (note the tapering springs, which all have very strong pulls, for example). The stamp is so low on the tang that I'm unable to read it, let alone photograph it. It has the letters S-B with a number underneath, which ends in 3. I'm thinking French My usual apologies for the poor photographs

I asked my friend in Thiers and he too think it is a navette made in Thiers or nearby. But he could not determine the maker, too many used the same kind of parts and no one knows the stamp. There were many assembling knives using parts from the same source. Sometime a workman working the morning in a factory would assemble knives at home in the afternoon, a sort of cottage industry, not rare at all in the mountain.
The corkscrew is clearly French origin, the same used on early Victorinox btw.
It's a good catch!

Will, here a German pattern very similar on sale on the great bay

 

[Jack Black]

Thanks for your help JP. The situation sounds very similiar to among Sheffield cutlers of course. I did check the stamp on the useful site you linked to previously, but couldn't turn anything up. I did notice it was common for a number to follow the name or initials of the maker. I like mysteries, but I also like to be able to solve them! :thumbup:

I particularly like the gimlet on this knife

 

[Jolipapa]

Yes, there was often a number along the name. I don't know why, may be it is linked with the deposit of the trade name.Thiers had (still exist but derelict now) the "valley of factories" on the banks of the Durolle river. Could simply be also the street n°!

The well named "Hell's hollow" :

(from M Clerc — Travail personnel, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=33291081)

 

[lambertiana]

Jack - Wherever it was made, that multiblade is a gem.

Jolipapa - I like that picture of Hell's Hollow. Imagine all of the sweat that was expended there. I never really thought about what the topography in Thiers might be, but it makes sense that the factories would be built where there was readily available water power, just as it was in Sheffield.

 

[Campbellclanman]

Jack Im thinking German as well.
I'm at work but if you Google " Solingen stampings on knives " you should find MANY pages of actual photographed stampings from Solingen Cutlers.
I'll have a look see tonight as well my friend.
That's one nice knife.

 

[mike Berkovitch]

High quality tools on that Horn handled knife, Jack. Very good finish on the backsprings too, I tend to think it more German.

Thanks, Will

I agree, on both quality and german.

Mike

 

[Jack Black]

Yes, there was often a number along the name. I don't know why, may be it is linked with the deposit of the trade name.Thiers had (still exist but derelict now) the "valley of factories" on the banks of the Durolle river. Could simply be also the street n°!

The well named "Hell's hollow" :

(from M Clerc — Travail personnel, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=33291081)

Great pic JP, I'm struggling to think why I've never visited Thiers My memory is so bad these days, I'll have to check my travel diaries to see how close I've been! If I'm not mistaken (and my knowledge of the French cutlery industry is embarrassingly poor), I believe that the factory on the left of your photo is the Creux de l’Enfer.

Jack - Wherever it was made, that multiblade is a gem.

Jolipapa - I like that picture of Hell's Hollow. Imagine all of the sweat that was expended there. I never really thought about what the topography in Thiers might be, but it makes sense that the factories would be built where there was readily available water power, just as it was in Sheffield.

Thanks my friend :thumbup: There would seem to be some similarity in terms of the topography, - steep-side hills, and a relatively narrow fast-flowing river (or rivers, in the case of Sheffield).

Jack Im thinking German as well.
I'm at work but if you Google " Solingen stampings on knives " you should find MANY pages of actual photographed stampings from Solingen Cutlers.
I'll have a look see tonight as well my friend.
That's one nice knife.

I agree, on both quality and german.

Thanks a lot guys, and thanks for the tip Duncan, I'll check that out :thumbup:

Edit - Turns out that I already had THIS page - http://www.germandaggers.com/Gallery/Makers.php - bookmarked, but there's nothing which looks remotely similar there

 

[Jack Black]

Oops! - Double tap

 

[Will Power]

I like this mystery, let's add fuel to the fire! Are you sure that's a 3 there Jack or could it be a lower case 'z' perhaps?? That confuses it more

Forum member germania who is active on Levine seems to have a comprehensive knowledge of German cutlery, he knows a lot about obscure makers which is good given the loss of archive material and documents during the devastation of WW II.

 

[Jolipapa]

A few exemples of what they made in Thiers (]courtoisie Bernard Arthaud)

And a bonus for you Jack, resembling your multi tool (Ouvert frères)

 

[Will Power]

JP Impressive work tracking down all those images

Why are some of those knives termed 'Tourist' or 'Swiss' do you think? Were they imitating patterns from outside France, 'foreign' styles?

Thanks, Will

 

[Jack Black]

I like this mystery, let's add fuel to the fire! Are you sure that's a 3 there Jack or could it be a lower case 'z' perhaps?? That confuses it more

Forum member germania who is active on Levine seems to have a comprehensive knowledge of German cutlery, he knows a lot about obscure makers which is good given the loss of archive material and documents during the devastation of WW II.

Of course I had to check! It still looks like a '3' to me Very hard to say, because it is so low on the tang, but I'd say that the lower part of the stamp is a 4 (possibly 5) digit number, beginning and ending with a 3, and with a 9 as the penultimate number. Here's another couple of pics :thumbup:






Thanks for the tip Will :thumbup:

I've a terrible internet connection today for some reason, and it's taken me several hours to upload those small pics! Many thanks for posting those images JP, it's very interesting to see them. Would you say that the absence of a bottle=opener denotes an older knife of this type?

 

[Jolipapa]

@ Jack : I guess yes, I don't know when they invented the metal cap for bottles, but as show some pictures, there was no opener on older knives, just a corkscrew.
You probably did not visit Thiers because it is in the middle of nowhere

@ Will : In the XVIIth, XVIIIth and XIXth and even in the XXth centuries Thiers was like the Chinese now. They would make huge quantities of knives of all sorts and sold all over the world, in French colonies of course, but Spain, Latin and South America were big markets as well as South-East Asia and Russia (France Exportation was a big conglomerate with several brands, each aimed at a specific market, i.e. 108 Girodias in Spain, etc.).
In France Nogent, Langres and Chatellerault (and a few other places) made better quality knives, but did not compare in terms of quantity and variety of patterns.
So they did also copies of the Swiss Army knife and as copyrights were not what they are now, sold them under the 'Swiss" pattern name until the 70's, when the real SAK started to be an icon. (But the Swiss could not prevent the use of the white cross on red as this is the Savoie flag as well.)
Other names as Touriste, Grand Touriste, Chamonix, Evian are references to the then new trend for tourism or resorts in the Alps, specific to that maker.

A bit of 2 cts psychology: people in Auvergne are Mountaineers, speak few, work hard, always adopt low profile, know what solidarity means and are never satisfied with themselves. The climate is hard, life tough and money scarce. At the end of XIXth cent. a lot came to Paris to find a job and they sold coal (Aveyron had lots of coal mines) and beverages beside (they were called bougnats-but beware, Bougna knives come from Pakistan!). Now they still hold most of the bars.