"Old Knives"

Vince,

Very cool cattle knife! Love the long pulls, especially how they run into the swedge!;) Just kidding;)

Really is a nice example.

Ken
 
an old waterville quill knife. old ivory feels good.
 

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ken erickson said:
Vince,

Very cool cattle knife! Love the long pulls, especially how they run into the swedge!;) Just kidding;)

Really is a nice example.

Ken
Click to expand...

I like that detail also Ken! And I'm not kidding!:D
The pull and adjoining swedge look like a continuous surface; very sculptural!
That's such an outstanding knife. I love Cattle patterns, and that one is the "Creme de la Creme!
 
ken erickson said:
Vince,

Very cool cattle knife! Love the long pulls, especially how they run into the swedge!;) Just kidding;)

Really is a nice example.

Ken
Click to expand...


I do like the way the pulls run up into the swedge. When I had made my first dogleg I ran the pull right into the swedge like that and Vince had PM'ed me asking if it was a mistake. I guess the just kidding part was an inside joke with Vince.

Really is a cool cattle knife!

Ken
 
I'd never seen that before.So,lemme ask.When they made these knives like that,back then,what do you think they did first? Create the pull & then grind the swedge ? Or what ?

It looks like they did the pull first & grind the swedge right into it.

Ken,how did you do your marvelous version (the blade) ?
Funny thing,the original knife,I won in Ken's most gracious G-A,I sent as a gift,today,to the owner of this Ivory cattle knife.
Thanks Again for that Ken.
-Vince
 
Pics of Ken's knife please! Ken or Vince!!

Vince, on a production knife, the swedge is one of the last things you do, except maybe a final hone and clean up. I watched this guy do swedges on spear blades, on finished knives at Queen. Cut 'em with one pass! I watched for a while, and he never missed! I wanted to ask what happened if he blew it, but I didn't want to break his concentration!
 
Charlie & All ,Ken's knife is here :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6162055&postcount=1

I believe it's his fine rendition of this knife here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6173582&postcount=1

I'm no expert on old knives,but with the nail pulls done like this,it makes me think the nail pulls were there first & then knifemaker grinds his swedge on .
In the case of these old knives like this,could it be,that if the knifemaker ground the swedge into the nail pull,making it so it was "open ended",was just a practice that instead of being a mistake became accepted ?

Also,in the case of long nail pulls running back into the tangs,you have seen these,correct ? Could this,or was this,developed style merely because of what tools they had at the time,to file or channel the pulls out ?

Remember,these high dollar antiques we now look at as treasured collectors knives,were made as using tools of the day.

In my line of work,I have had inexperienced homeowners ask me to completely refurb antique double hung windows in 18th centurty homes,but the windows were not original to the home,they were added later on.

Either way,both versions of this dog leg are quite gorgeous in thier own right.But it makes one interested in it,wonder,about such details

I'd like to hear what you think on this & I hope you can understand what I am asking,or pondering.Thank You,
-Vince
 
Not vintage in the true sense of the word, but these are over 30 years old so I figured I'd put em up..

A little Red Bone.. A 7 dot 6292 and a 4 dot 6207.

DSC00200.jpg
 
Vince, the pulls were most likely done first on any style blade, just as it is done today. A couple of reasons why....It's easier to cut or forge pulls into flat stock AND if they ground the bevels first, they could mar the grinds when cutting the pull.

I have had to cut pulls in one blade AFTER I ground the bevels...it's a little nerve wracking because after I put all the effort into grinding the blade, it's possible to waste all that by screwing up on the pull.
 
Kerry ,Thanks for the info

I'd like to add these dark scans,to show some details we are discussing here

This view,is looking at the tangs in the closed position & shows the long pulls cut all the way back,at the end of the blade
11-29-2008_085010PM.jpg


This is a long pull sampler shot,two NY Knife Co's & one IXL Anglo Saxon Whittler
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A small Remington in where the knife maker did not break through the pull when grinding the swedge ,but came really close
11-29-2008_100346PM.jpg

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It has been brought to my attention & explained,the older higher quality knives were almost always made with the pulls "open ended" at the front of the blade where the swedge is
-Vince
 
This collection of old blades I have has a swedge ground on every blade and they have never been in a knife. I think in those days they ground the blade, swedged it, and then did the final finish work before they put it in the knife.
 
Size doesn't always matter. At a hair under 3", here's a nice little Sunday-go-to-Church knife! Nice swedges (not shown to best advantage here) that don't quite break into the nail pulls, and wonderfully jigged and dyed bone. It also has that inked number we know and love. Hammered pins and stamps on both sides of both blades tell me it's old. Does anyone know when it hails from??
Wester1.jpg

Wester2.jpg

Wester3.jpg

Wester4.jpg

Wester5.jpg

Wester6.jpg
 
Charlie,on the Wester Bros. ... Between 1890 to 1920
I'll call it a guess,educated by information.
I like the bone on it !
-Vince
 
Importers of English& German knives until 1915 Spun pins on this one,2-1/2" closed

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Here it is next to a worn out 3" Case knife
11-30-2008_053916PM.jpg


And here,next to a big 5-1/4" American Shear & Knife Coke Bottle
11-30-2008_055757PM.jpg
 
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Circa 1875 - 1890
Another one of those "open ended" pulls
11-30-2008_054945PM.jpg

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