"Old Knives"

Railsplitter · Mar 24, 2018

Augie said:
Rick, I think the knife was originally a 2 blade knife and that is the old pivot pin from the missing blade, it still is a good looking knife.

Thanks, Augie. I thought that might be the case but I wasn't sure.

LongBlade · Mar 24, 2018

veitsi_poika said:
I did notice a couple of Camillus knives during my browsing last night too Duncan but couldn't find any clear pictures... yours is a good one. It still does look like the Miller Bros (and Lee's M&G) narrows down a bit more where it meets the center circle. It's funny that we are finding subtle differences between all of the major players and their prop shield. Makes me think that there was not a seller of "generic" shields as was mentioned earlier, at least not for the major manufacturer's. It seems it is a good way to figure out SFO's for the wholesale people like M&G, HSB and the hardware stores.

I love this stuff and I'm glad I'm not the only one

- Kevin

I agree 200% Kevin about Miller Bros and the shields :thumbsup:

... However I am still guessing that some shields were retailed though no doubt many companies made their own - especially the larger firms... I also wonder if some (not all) of the subtle differences can be from the finishing as maybe some of the shields were slightly modified by fitting and making them flush Hmnnn... and you are definitely not alone in loving this stuff or suffering from knifitis

....

veitsi_poika · Mar 24, 2018

lambertiana said:
Here's another M&G ad from the 1880s that has a propeller shield:

The moose on the right is an old M&G:

And some examples of propeller shields:
Ulster:

Southington:

And the clincher, from Empire - note that it has more rounded ends, unlike the Ulster or Southington:

Now we can play the same game for the Maher & Grosh moose that @lambertiana posted... based on the knives that I have I would say that one is a Schrade Cut Co.

- Kevin

veitsi_poika · Mar 24, 2018

Railsplitter said:
Thanks, Augie. I thought that might be the case but I wasn't sure.

On a side note... in my surfing last night I found the below weblink which I'm pretty sure IS your knife

Railsplitter ... not a similar model, it's the one in your hand LoL. You can see that phantom pin in the top view pics and other characteristic marks on the bone and blades.

https://www.oldetownecutlery.com/product/vintage-union-knife-works-single-blade-jack/

- Kevin

Railsplitter · Mar 24, 2018

veitsi_poika said:
On a side note... in my surfing last night I found the below weblink which I'm pretty sure IS your knife Railsplitter ... not a similar model, it's the one in your hand LoL. You can see that phantom pin in the top view pics and other characteristic marks on the bone and blades.

https://www.oldetownecutlery.com/product/vintage-union-knife-works-single-blade-jack/

- Kevin

Yep, that's the one, Kevin! :thumbsup:

Campbellclanman · Mar 24, 2018

I recall Charlie stated at one time that only Empire used a particular Shield ( not that Lee’s Shield is the one I am talking about) and shields would have been an outside obtainable item for all.
I think what will determine the Knife is pin placement along with everything else we have thrown out there - such as Matchstrikes - Swedge work etc.

Rick - hasn’t Lyle shared with us smaller Farmers Jacks? I wonder if yours was one before the removal of the secondary blade- as not all FJ’s had Hawkbills?
Again - just me thinking aloud.

Railsplitter · Mar 24, 2018

Campbellclanman said:
I recall Charlie stated at one time that only Empire used a particular Shield ( not that Lee’s Shield is the one I am talking about) and shields would have been an outside obtainable item for all.
I think what will determine the Knife is pin placement along with everything else we have thrown out there - such as Matchstrikes - Swedge work etc.

Rick - hasn’t Lyle shared with us smaller Farmers Jacks? I wonder if yours was one before the removal of the secondary blade- as not all FJ’s had Hawkbills?
Again - just me thinking aloud.

Duncan, thanks for chiming in about my knife. That certainly does sound like a good possibility.

waynorth · Mar 24, 2018

LongBlade said:
I think this is the longest I have seen this thread quiet... hmnn - maybe it is Spring Break ... some great knives over the last few pages from R8shell (that Bunting is a gem - cool to find knives from those makers more known for their Bowies - and great info from Jack!), Lloyd, CharlieN, North Shore, Eric and Kevin ... Hope I didn't forget anybody...

Here's something a little different from me... a Maher & Grosh Carpenter's Jack (3 & 3/4" closed)... These cocobolo handles have some great stripes on the mark side while the pile side is less nice (and that difference between mark and pile sides is seen on many old knives - always putting the nice handle slab on the mark side - I'm sure many of you have seen this as well...)... not sure who made this one for Maher & Grosh but do think it is an older M&G based on stamp...

Cheers
Lee

Empires: I don't have these knives anymore, so can't give more views. But the shields are comparable.

Campbellclanman · Mar 25, 2018

Great old Empires Charlie- Thank you for posting those old Beauties!

Here is a Knife that isnt too old, but would fit into the Vintage Category, I really like the slightly earlier Kissing Krane Knives- in later years different manufacturing came in and the renowned Quality went out the Window...
This Congress has Nice Stag, I like the detail and attention to each very tidy wee Blade, the walk and talk superb, extremely clean cut Swedge Work, Long Pulls - each Blade is right up there- a nice package!
I apologise for the VERY poor photos folks- rainy day when these were taken- yuk!

Ramrodmb · Mar 25, 2018

LongBlade said:
Thanks - some great old knives and examples of propeller shields Gev, Kevin and Lambertiana and Duncan ... Beauty of a carpenter jack too lambertiana ... Thanks Kevin for the catalog cuts - interesting - wish mine still had the etch !! I do understand that M&G made alot of the carpenter jacks over the years and probably by different companies - I also understand that M&G had lots of cutlery contractors making their patterns over the years but still have no complete listing.. Nonetheless until this thread started showing all these different propeller shields I never realized how they did differ somewhat among companies as pointed out and sometimes subtle differences as some show above...

Now the Miller Bros is indeed interesting as pointed out above and Kevin had some nice examples (btw - I have the same MB hunter with propeller shield) - so last night I started thinking about this again and looking through some old knife photos as Miller Bros needed some attention... I am starting to think myself that it may very well be Miller Bros though NYK is so very close (and Ulster had a shield that was indeed very close as well but perhaps more pointed at ends) and Empire is coming up on the outside lane and closing ... I took some photos of another Miller Bros Jumbo Jack - indeed as pointed out above by Kevin the shield is an exact match, there is a match strike long pull and if I am not mistaken the pen blade even has a similar look based on shape and nail nick (but really tough to say as many pen blades among companies are very similar)... I also think though the master is a spear blade the swedge does indicate some similarities to that swedge seen on the M&G... Now take a look at this Miller Bros and see what you think - I am now starting to lean towards it being Miller Bros as well ... (I am including the M&G again for a quick comparison...)... Thanks all for helping trying to figure this out )...

Cheers
Lee

A perfect match on the shield, imo! :thumbsup:

Thanks for showing those side by side!
It was fun to compare the shields and interesting how many subtle differences there are.

veitsi_poika · Mar 25, 2018

It's hard to know for sure the age of Henckel's knives so I'm just going to assume this knife is old enough to be posted here... my apologies if these pics offend anyone

Maybe H herder might have an idea on approximate age?

- Kevin

LongBlade · Mar 25, 2018

Nice Empires Charlie :thumbsup:

.. The jigged bone lock back is killer

.... Looking across those 3 propeller shields I am seeing slight differences among them and the bone hunter has a match to the M&G... Interesting but as Duncan alluded to above probably other aspects (such as pin placement etc) are just as important for an ID or good guess

..

Nice knife Duncan :thumbsup:

- nice looking stag too even on a rainy day

...

Kevin - That is a super looking MOP Henckels :thumbsup:

...

waynorth · Mar 25, 2018

Great rainy-day Stag, Duncan!! Stellar knife!!
Nice Pearl Kevin!!

waynorth · Mar 26, 2018

Attention L LongBlade et.al: the question of whether Empire made knives for Maher & Grosh has yet to be answered. My friend Tom from Winsted has no hard evidence either way. I am still poking around in catalog compilations.

Campbellclanman · Mar 26, 2018

I’m still thinking Empire - as they did a lot of contract work.
Interesting!

LongBlade · Mar 26, 2018

waynorth said:
Attention L LongBlade et.al: the question of whether Empire made knives for Maher & Grosh has yet to be answered. My friend Tom from Winsted has no hard evidence either way. I am still poking around in catalog compilations.

Thanks Charlie for trying to get that answer from Tom etc :thumbsup:

... Just my opinion & guess but given Empire did a fair amount of contract work it would be hard to believe that they didn't make knives for M&G - but you never hear their name as having done so like the others - Ulster, Schrade, NYK, Miller Bros etc...

herder · Mar 26, 2018

Some great knives posted recently by Gevonovich, Railspitter, V.P., Lambertiana, Campbellclanman, Longblade, and waynorth!!!

Campbellclanman, Klaas from Solingen, Germany certainly did produce some high quality knives, and their recent (German) made knives aren't bad either.
I believe your wonderful Congress model dates to circa 1950s to 1960s. I don't have a catalog cut showing a post war congress model but do have a few pre-war illustrations with one enclosed.

Very nice pearl lobster model V.P. which dates to pre WWII and was not available after the war. Enclosed is a catalog cut from 1930.

View attachment 876069

View attachment 876074

SteveC · Mar 27, 2018

Any ideas as to who made this knife ?

Rogers bone , brass liners, half stops ..... no tang stamp

The seller thought Remington and I think that might be right.

Augie · Mar 27, 2018

Steve, I've got almost the same knife with a spear blade, mine looks like the stamp was ground off. I was thinking Winchester.

Augie · Mar 27, 2018

Picked up a Schrade Walden pruner, pretty common knife but what makes this one unusual is it has a Bartlett MFG Co blade etch, I have a Schrade Walden farmers jack with the same etch,Bartlett is an arborist supply company that is still in business.