"Old Knives"

Dragonhaus · Dec 13, 2019

Campbellclanman said:
Herder- thank you so much my friend for your kind comments and supplied Catalog Advertisement - that’s very much appreciated.
I actually thought it may have been slightly earlier - but now you have placed me back on track. I do think as well that perhaps this knife isn’t in abundance- it could very very easily be passed on by others as the more common Scouts of the slightly layer period if they didn’t pick up on the variances this knife has, so it is a pleasing addition to my Scouts.

Dragonhaus
Many thanks for this - obviously the Scottish area Troquair was the closest but that one letter / aaaggggh! But thanks to you this maybe the answer!
Again my friend thank you.

You are very welcome, one thing I did notice it that your knife is almost identical to the Pioneer model sans the stag pommel. The only reference I found with that pommel is the generic "hunting knife" label. I plan on researching it more, will let you know what I find. Cheers

Campbellclanman · Dec 14, 2019

I have owned many of these types of Knives and the Stag Pommel is not unique to just this Fixed blade, nor the Wide Fuller - this Blade type was used often throughout the Sheffield Cutler Companies, American Companies and Solingen Cutler companies as well.
I used to own the complete set of Wade and Butchers Pioneer, Teddy and Boone in the 10 inched sized Knives, I was pleased to come across the larger 13 inch sized FB of Wade and Butchers because the size alone from Wades is harder to come by, and this being the first ever I have seen with the Troquair Etching.

Most of the Sheffield's of this era in the Fixed Blades would not have the Stag Pommel, I*XL did so more than any other company I have seen- but that is in my experience only, You will note that the American Companies used Stag pommels on their Fixed Blades and a fine example of this to use - even in their very early days is Marbles, its often said that the Sheffield companies copied this pattern from Marbles - dating the first from each would be interesting for comparison.

Dragonhaus · Dec 14, 2019

Campbellclanman said:
I have owned many of these types of Knives and the Stag Pommel is not unique to just this Fixed blade, nor the Wide Fuller - this Blade type was used often throughout the Sheffield Cutler Companies, American Companies and Solingen Cutler companies as well.
I used to own the complete set of Wade and Butchers Pioneer, Teddy and Boone in the 10 inched sized Knives, I was pleased to come across the larger 13 inch sized FB of Wade and Butchers because the size alone from Wades is harder to come by, and this being the first ever I have seen with the Troquair Etching.

Most of the Sheffield's of this era in the Fixed Blades would not have the Stag Pommel, I*XL did so more than any other company I have seen- but that is in my experience only, You will note that the American Companies used Stag pommels on their Fixed Blades and a fine example of this to use - even in their very early days is Marbles, its often said that the Sheffield companies copied this pattern from Marbles - dating the first from each would be interesting for comparison.

It is piquing my interest more and more. Especially since i see most of their lines are etched similarly. Maybe it's a very limited run? Or maybe a commemorative blade? Definitely going to dig deeper. It will be difficult, especially since they have been out of business for decades and most documentation is on their razors.

Luger1952 · Dec 14, 2019

Here is a unique Shapleigh Hardware DE bare head jack I recently acquired off eBay that went sort of unnoticed or overlooked so I got it for what I thought was a very good price. No bids so made an offer which seller accepted. It is 3 & 1/2 inches closed and has Ebony handles. The mark side front blade/multi tool knife has a can opener, bottle opener and a Presto-Lite-Tool. The second blade is a traditional spear blade with long pull. The action or W & T is quite exceptional with pull on both tool and blade being around 8-9 with very positive half stops (both tool and blade) and loud snappy to full open on both. The tool and blade are all flush at closed, half and full. The build quality or craftsmanship is excellent. The spear blade has seen use/sharpened and as a result has some blade loss in the girth of the blade but the tool looks in excellent condition with sharp/crisp tool edges. The blade and tool has patinaed and has some frosting and very minor pitting. The handles are very well secured with no gaps between the brass spacers and no light penetration or bleeding from the bottom between the springs.

Now, I initially thought who could have made this folder? Certainly Empire made knives for Shapleigh as well as some others. The longer I looked at it the more Schrade it looked. So I did a catalog search and found a Schrade S2393 on page 28 of the 1926 Schrade catalog called a Campers’ knife. This catalog cut at the bottom shows it with stag handles (jigged bone) but everything else looks just like this Ebony handled Shapleigh pictured. Same exact tool(s) and spear blade, same handle and spring pin placement, same length, same nail nick on tool and long pull on spear and same shield. I think this folder was made in the late 19 teens to the mid 1920s given that the Presto-Lite acetylene headlight was pretty much gone by then. What do you all think? Any comments, thoughts or corrections are of course very welcomed :thumbsup:

Thanks for looking!

N

black mamba · Dec 14, 2019

Fabulous knife, Lloyd . . . how did I miss that one?!

herder · Dec 14, 2019

Goetztalon said:
Love the old sale ads! Thanks for showing them herder!

Thanks Goetztalon, I enjoy old catalogs and paperwork as much as the knives themselves.

TheChunk91 · Dec 14, 2019

It looks schrade to me. Nice knife.

Campbellclanman · Dec 14, 2019

Lloyd matey - that’s a nice Knife- I guess some people may have not looked at that too hard because of the Tooling but I doubt that - I think you may have been very lucky that sale went under the radar.

Schrade’s earlier opener had the Square cut in the centre ( I stand to be corrected on that one ) what that Squares use is I don’t know

To me this knife along with other knives such as the Scouts, Dog Grooming Knives etc are massively important in a collection- and what better condition could you ask for!!!

I agree with the lads- it does look Schrade! Man what a neat score! :thumbsup:

tongueriver · Dec 14, 2019

Never saw it or it would be here, at most any price. Good on you!

waynorth · Dec 14, 2019

Luger1952 said:
Here is a unique Shapleigh Hardware DE bare head jack I recently acquired off eBay that went sort of unnoticed or overlooked so I got it for what I thought was a very good price. No bids so made an offer which seller accepted. It is 3 & 1/2 inches closed and has Ebony handles. The mark side front blade/multi tool knife has a can opener, bottle opener and a Presto-Lite-Tool. The second blade is a traditional spear blade with long pull. The action or W & T is quite exceptional with pull on both tool and blade being around 8-9 with very positive half stops (both tool and blade) and loud snappy to full open on both. The tool and blade are all flush at closed, half and full. The build quality or craftsmanship is excellent. The spear blade has seen use/sharpened and as a result has some blade loss in the girth of the blade but the tool looks in excellent condition with sharp/crisp tool edges. The blade and tool has patinaed and has some frosting and very minor pitting. The handles are very well secured with no gaps between the brass spacers and no light penetration or bleeding from the bottom between the springs.

Now, I initially thought who could have made this folder? Certainly Empire made knives for Shapleigh as well as some others. The longer I looked at it the more Schrade it looked. So I did a catalog search and found a Schrade S2393 on page 28 of the 1926 Schrade catalog called a Campers’ knife. This catalog cut at the bottom shows it with stag handles (jigged bone) but everything else looks just like this Ebony handled Shapleigh pictured. Same exact tool(s) and spear blade, same handle and spring pin placement, same length, same nail nick on tool and long pull on spear and same shield. I think this folder was made in the late 19 teens to the mid 1920s given that the Presto-Lite acetylene headlight was pretty much gone by then. What do you all think? Any comments, thoughts or corrections are of course very welcomed Thanks for looking!
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N

Beautiful Schrade-made knife, Lloyd!!!

Nice job of tracking down its DNA!!!
WW1-era Schrade Cut Co-made for sure!!! :thumbsup:

Augie · Dec 20, 2019

Luger1952 said:
Here is a unique Shapleigh Hardware DE bare head jack I recently acquired off eBay that went sort of unnoticed or overlooked so I got it for what I thought was a very good price. No bids so made an offer which seller accepted. It is 3 & 1/2 inches closed and has Ebony handles. The mark side front blade/multi tool knife has a can opener, bottle opener and a Presto-Lite-Tool. The second blade is a traditional spear blade with long pull. The action or W & T is quite exceptional with pull on both tool and blade being around 8-9 with very positive half stops (both tool and blade) and loud snappy to full open on both. The tool and blade are all flush at closed, half and full. The build quality or craftsmanship is excellent. The spear blade has seen use/sharpened and as a result has some blade loss in the girth of the blade but the tool looks in excellent condition with sharp/crisp tool edges. The blade and tool has patinaed and has some frosting and very minor pitting. The handles are very well secured with no gaps between the brass spacers and no light penetration or bleeding from the bottom between the springs.

Now, I initially thought who could have made this folder? Certainly Empire made knives for Shapleigh as well as some others. The longer I looked at it the more Schrade it looked. So I did a catalog search and found a Schrade S2393 on page 28 of the 1926 Schrade catalog called a Campers’ knife. This catalog cut at the bottom shows it with stag handles (jigged bone) but everything else looks just like this Ebony handled Shapleigh pictured. Same exact tool(s) and spear blade, same handle and spring pin placement, same length, same nail nick on tool and long pull on spear and same shield. I think this folder was made in the late 19 teens to the mid 1920s given that the Presto-Lite acetylene headlight was pretty much gone by then. What do you all think? Any comments, thoughts or corrections are of course very welcomed Thanks for looking!
View attachment 1248806 View attachment 1248812 View attachment 1248807 View attachment 1248808 View attachment 1248809 View attachment 1248810 View attachment 1248805

N

Beat me to it Lloyd, I usually let them sit a few days before making an offer and you got it. Congratulations on picking up such a wonderful unusual knife.

I also concur as to Schrade made, I have several Shapleigh knives that are Schrade made, I think Schrade was one of Shapleigh's biggest knife suppliers.

knowtracks · Dec 20, 2019

Been a while since I've had time to take any pictures! Life just won't leave me alone sometimes!

I do appreciate all the Great knives that everyone has been sharing here and I do have a couple new/older knives to share!

A couple of Schatt's with Gowanda (1896-1902) tang stamps, one is a straight razor, both the box and contents are pretty much pristine and will go in my display to the OKCA show this coming April!

This 2 blade swell end jack with pretty full blades. :thumbsup:

Dave

knowtracks · Dec 20, 2019

I also picked up this silver fruit knife from Sheffield

Dave

waynorth · Dec 20, 2019

3 nice pieces, Dave!! Each has it's own beauty!! :thumbsup:

Augie, Empire made a lot of Shapleigh's knives until the late 1920s when they went out of business. Then Schrade took over a lot of that business!!

paulhilborn · Dec 20, 2019

Very NICE Dave, but that Jack is a BEAUTY

them covers are dark like dolls eye's...Quint

circa 1975...

veitsi_poika · Dec 21, 2019

Anybody ever see a cursive or script tang stamp on an old Ulster?

P.S. Hi everybody by the way!

Looks like I have 40 pages of fine pics to get caught up on

Campbellclanman · Dec 21, 2019

Dave my friend Wow!! What a couple of outstanding pick-ups on a VERY elusive Tang Stamp- ever since you showing us some of these old Treasures I have always got my eyes peeled foe this Stamping- I haven't even seen one yet- and for you to get two such beauties!!!! unbelievable! That Razor Box is soooo tidy! an excellent display my friend, that Jack is simply outstanding, the Swage work is a bit of me that's for sure!

Howdy Kev, LONG Time no see Buddy, hope you are well, and to answer your Question- no I haven't seen the Ulster Script Tang Stamp- nor the Circled Tang Stamp- really interesting!

veitsi_poika · Dec 21, 2019

Campbellclanman said:
Dave my friend Wow!! What a couple of outstanding pick-ups on a VERY elusive Tang Stamp- ever since you showing us some of these old Treasures I have always got my eyes peeled foe this Stamping- I haven't even seen one yet- and for you to get two such beauties!!!! unbelievable! That Razor Box is soooo tidy! an excellent display my friend, that Jack is simply outstanding, the Swage work is a bit of me that's for sure!

Howdy Kev, LONG Time no see Buddy, hope you are well, and to answer your Question- no I haven't seen the Ulster Script Tang Stamp- nor the Circled Tang Stamp- really interesting!

I am doing very well Duncan

Had to take a knife vacation to get some chores done on my house and other tasks at work. I remembered today that I better pop in and renew my membership again

Can't wait to start looking at what I missed in the Old Knives thread :thumbsup:

TheChunk91 · Dec 21, 2019

Good to see you again Kevin!

galvanic1882 · Dec 25, 2019

Great knives guys!! I thought I would post a different knife to this thread because of the history of older knives. It's an auto and a rare one.

I love finding rare knives and I think this one is one of the rarest I've ever found.

It is a rare Springfield Armory PB Ballonist's knife. Below is a link showing the knife on the Museum's webpage. The knife shown in the museum is not the same knife as you can see from the pictures. Mine has a bit more wear. I was really lucky to have found this one!!

http://springfieldedge.com/ballon_kinfe_m-1921.html

Here is a post that a friend posted on another site about the knife, thanks Myron

"Mike, you are a legend at finding and sharing the rarest of the rare on SD. Right up there with Alex:>). The site you are referencing is dedicated to the late Burt Kellerstedt who I met in 1999 at one of our NCCA shows. He came to my table and asked if I had ever seen one of (showing me the balloonist knife) these? Never had and it wasn't for sale. He later sent photo copies of the knife as well as a copy of the Springfield Armory's inventory that listed the: Mod. 1921 parachute knife made at Springfield Armory FY (fiscal year) 1921 - 161 made for Balloon Service at a cost of $1028.80 and FY 1923 100 made. The knife on the site is the one Burt had shown me in 1999.

At this writing I believe there are four examples known to exist. As one writer mentioned, there may be more. One of the four will be in a display by BK Brooks at the April 2020 Eugene OR show with other military knives. The theme of the Eugene Show is, I believe, Military Knives.

Mike, enjoy your find in good health and thank you for sharing it with the community.

Myron"

"Old Knives"

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