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Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
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Old steel vs new steel why the attitude.
- Thread starter Dean51
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- Feb 25, 2001
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I'm more about the heat treatment than the specific type of steel. Right now, GEC is doing a better job than the competition, and happen to be doing it with 1095. The steel is hard enough that I don't roll the edge, yet it doesn't chip easily. It may not be exceptionally abrasion resistant, but I can easily bring back the edge with just a strop. All that, plus I get to have a nice patina. It's hard not to love.
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- Dec 6, 2012
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I like 1095 and D2 a lot for traditional folders and fixed blades. I'd pay dang near any amount to get that steel. But to be candid here, most of my user traditionals are of a SS variety. For me it's all about pattern and cost. The brand, The metallurgy and the engineering play almost non existent roles in my knife buying habits.
I go through phases though where if I like the pattern, scales and internals the blade steel doesn't matter too much (Like the Case Trapperlock. It's a SS blade but that pattern is upwards of 80 bucks or more depending on scales. Which I will gladly pay. Would I prefer it in S30V? You bet! But I gotta take it with what I can get, ya know?)
I really have to justify to myself why I should pay that much for a SS blade. But pattern will win out if I'm truly desperate for it.
I rarely measure steel by cutting performance either. Heck, I don't cut a whole lot of really tuff stuff, so to me 440 cuts just as well as S30V as long as the edge is good. A caveat here, I know blade geometry plays more of a role in cutting performance than choice of steel but that's a different conversation I think.
I do prefer my more expensive knives (usually modern folders) to have a super steel like S30V or the like. Just because I'm usually paying +135 or more for those and, to have 440 or it's like on a knife that much is just insulting IMO.
Recently I have become infatuated with just about everything Case so I'm getting more into SS and CV. Good thing it's dependable and cheap.
By the way, my Mudbug ($80) including sheath was $115 and change. I've never paid that much for 1095 on a folder. Was it worth it? Heck yeah!! It's 1095, LOL!!
I go through phases though where if I like the pattern, scales and internals the blade steel doesn't matter too much (Like the Case Trapperlock. It's a SS blade but that pattern is upwards of 80 bucks or more depending on scales. Which I will gladly pay. Would I prefer it in S30V? You bet! But I gotta take it with what I can get, ya know?)
I really have to justify to myself why I should pay that much for a SS blade. But pattern will win out if I'm truly desperate for it.
I rarely measure steel by cutting performance either. Heck, I don't cut a whole lot of really tuff stuff, so to me 440 cuts just as well as S30V as long as the edge is good. A caveat here, I know blade geometry plays more of a role in cutting performance than choice of steel but that's a different conversation I think.
I do prefer my more expensive knives (usually modern folders) to have a super steel like S30V or the like. Just because I'm usually paying +135 or more for those and, to have 440 or it's like on a knife that much is just insulting IMO.
Recently I have become infatuated with just about everything Case so I'm getting more into SS and CV. Good thing it's dependable and cheap.
By the way, my Mudbug ($80) including sheath was $115 and change. I've never paid that much for 1095 on a folder. Was it worth it? Heck yeah!! It's 1095, LOL!!
I'm just a pup at 60.
Big reason for me. I like 12c27 and good AUS8 too. They seem to frugally hold a razor edge as well.
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- Feb 5, 2007
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I tend to carry more than one knife and more than one knife steel at a time. It's nice to have something that can hold an edge, but being able to sharpen on the run, it isn't a deal breaker. For the rainy summer I mostly used a Case Tru-sharp blade as the go to work blade, no rust, no worries, no maintenance, which is quite a change for being a hard core carbon guy in the past.
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- Nov 11, 2002
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- 1,969
I tend to favor a stainless blade. I doesn't need to be a "newer" type steel as I'll mix in more common steels as found on my alox SAK's, which will take a wicked edge but not hold it too long, up to the more high end type steels in my customs.
My carry knife purchases for the most part are all in stainless. I've many older blades in my collection that are carbon steel but those are rarely carried but maybe one or two of them on a rare occasion.
I get why some favor a carbon steel blade, and I tried many of them, but wind up back with a stainless. Just works better for me. The SAK stainless has been is use for what, 50 years? So stainless blades easily capture the traditional flavor for myself, but not some " tradional purists", which is fine.
Good thing about our forum is that most of discussion tends to be towards the style of the knife, more than the blade steel. Most of the time anyway.
My carry knife purchases for the most part are all in stainless. I've many older blades in my collection that are carbon steel but those are rarely carried but maybe one or two of them on a rare occasion.
I get why some favor a carbon steel blade, and I tried many of them, but wind up back with a stainless. Just works better for me. The SAK stainless has been is use for what, 50 years? So stainless blades easily capture the traditional flavor for myself, but not some " tradional purists", which is fine.
Good thing about our forum is that most of discussion tends to be towards the style of the knife, more than the blade steel. Most of the time anyway.
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- Joined
- Mar 28, 2001
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- 2,491
I like 1095 for a few reasons.
It seems to take a finer edge than a lot of stainless. That may be subjective, but I think it does anyway.
I like patina.
I don't mind sharpening, and find it sort of relaxing, so a knife holding an edge forever isn't a big deal to me.
I like the way carbon steels "feels" on a stone.
But I don't care what you like. I think everybody ought to get what they like.
It seems to take a finer edge than a lot of stainless. That may be subjective, but I think it does anyway.
I like patina.
I don't mind sharpening, and find it sort of relaxing, so a knife holding an edge forever isn't a big deal to me.
I like the way carbon steels "feels" on a stone.
But I don't care what you like. I think everybody ought to get what they like.
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- Jan 1, 2012
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- 4,327
We all have our preferences and there are many choices out there in the world - and that's a very good thing! My knife needs are simple and I thoroughly enjoy my traditionals. I use my pocket knife numerous times a day for the simple tasks in life, so older type carbon steel is no obstacle to my requirements that it "cut stuff". No matter what I do with it I wipe or wash the blade as needed and spend very little time maintaining it beyond that. A few swipes on the strop once a week, put it to the Arkansas maybe once a month and that's it. For me 1095 is plenty fine for performance and the classic "old, worn look" it acquires over time is quaint.
Why GEC has chosen 1095 vs an ancient iron type steel of earlier centuries is (I believe) because the "target period" of their traditional pocket knives is the 1890-1930 time period. This is considered by many to have been the heyday of pocket knives, when cutlers were putting out very well made knives to the masses - some of the best ever produced to this day.
Another analogy might be that the pocket knives most often found discussed here (Case, GEC, Buck, Old Timer, Camillus, etc) are sort of like 1950's era cars compared to the Model T era (the ancient 1600's technology example Dean mentioned). "We love the 50's classics!" here. We like old knives, but not THAT OLD?
Many of us (I'm 52) remember these in our Grandfather's and Dad's pockets when we were young and we even carried them ourselves before the day of the modern clip-on, easy-open style that's common today. So they hold special honor in our hearts for nostalgia reasons.
Thanks for the great discussion Dean! :thumbup:
Why GEC has chosen 1095 vs an ancient iron type steel of earlier centuries is (I believe) because the "target period" of their traditional pocket knives is the 1890-1930 time period. This is considered by many to have been the heyday of pocket knives, when cutlers were putting out very well made knives to the masses - some of the best ever produced to this day.
Another analogy might be that the pocket knives most often found discussed here (Case, GEC, Buck, Old Timer, Camillus, etc) are sort of like 1950's era cars compared to the Model T era (the ancient 1600's technology example Dean mentioned). "We love the 50's classics!" here. We like old knives, but not THAT OLD?
Many of us (I'm 52) remember these in our Grandfather's and Dad's pockets when we were young and we even carried them ourselves before the day of the modern clip-on, easy-open style that's common today. So they hold special honor in our hearts for nostalgia reasons. Thanks for the great discussion Dean! :thumbup:
What about other materials, such as modern acrylic in place of the old celluloid? No question the modern stuff is more stable, but if it's the materials that make a knife traditional--
Personally, I am happy with 1095. But I'm also happy with 420HC.
I guess I'm just happy.
Personally, I am happy with 1095. But I'm also happy with 420HC.
I guess I'm just happy.
I think the concept of diminishing returns comes into play at some point. Personally they could have stopped steel development at 440C and called it good. But that is a personal thing and where that line is changes from noggin to noggin. Wherever you draw the line, if you keep going you reach a point where satire takes a hand.
For a lot of traditional fans like me the eyes begin to roll when you hear about some new steel that has to be sent to the factory to be sharpened. But then again I realise that it is all relative. I keep a sense of humor about it. To some, my preferences are a bit weird as well.
It's all good as long as we don't take our choices or ourselves too seriously.
Will
For a lot of traditional fans like me the eyes begin to roll when you hear about some new steel that has to be sent to the factory to be sharpened. But then again I realise that it is all relative. I keep a sense of humor about it. To some, my preferences are a bit weird as well.
It's all good as long as we don't take our choices or ourselves too seriously.
Will
Interesting thread that really took off. I'm older than all you guys! I've seen this scenario played out in different interests. If you're a true collector, it comes down to what you like, and you're hard headed about it. I used to make and shoot self bows, all wood bows from the distant past. Made strings, arrows, and broadheads. I would go to a three D archery shoot and rile some people by shooting aluminum arrows off a self bow. I'd just laugh and outshoot them, no matter what my arrow that day. They didn't know that Doug Easton was making aluminum arrows in the '20's. Traditional knives are functional works of art. I myself, like steel that is sharp as long as possible. That brings in the modern steels. I notice that all the nice custom knives made are almost all "not 1095". I can't understand this. I'm developing more of an interest in 1095 lately, bought a few oldies off Ebay. As far as almost angry comments against another's choice, it's so easy to come across as aggressive when your comments are screened through a keyboard. Like KBA said, the covers, (and style), are another thing completely. After taking an interest in traditional knives, the modern day knives are revolting "to me". With traditional knife steel however, it's "Do you like a hot redhead, or a hot blond?"
I've seen this scenario played out in different interests. If you're a true collector, it comes down to what you like, and you're hard headed about it. I used to make and shoot self bows, all wood bows from the distant past. Made strings, arrows, and broadheads. I would go to a three D archery shoot and rile some people by shooting aluminum arrows off a self bow. I'd just laugh and outshoot them, no matter what my arrow that day. They didn't know that Doug Easton was making aluminum arrows in the '20's. Traditional knives are functional works of art. I myself, like steel that is sharp as long as possible. That brings in the modern steels. I notice that all the nice custom knives made are almost all "not 1095". I can't understand this. I'm developing more of an interest in 1095 lately, bought a few oldies off Ebay. As far as almost angry comments against another's choice, it's so easy to come across as aggressive when your comments are screened through a keyboard. Like KBA said, the covers, (and style), are another thing completely. After taking an interest in traditional knives, the modern day knives are revolting "to me". With traditional knife steel however, it's "Do you like a hot redhead, or a hot blond?"You should like the Kephart.
When I first started using D2 it took a bit to learn what kind of edge would work for the steel and my uses.
I started out taking it to 1500 on the diamonds then black compound on the strop. What I ended up doing was 600 with the diamonds then just a few licks with the strop to debur.
Take the time to experiment a bit & you should like it.
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- Jul 2, 2013
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We all have our preferences and there are many choices out there in the world - and that's a very good thing! My knife needs are simple and I thoroughly enjoy my traditionals. I use my pocket knife numerous times a day for the simple tasks in life, so older type carbon steel is no obstacle to my requirements that it "cut stuff". No matter what I do with it I wipe or wash the blade as needed and spend very little time maintaining it beyond that. A few swipes on the strop once a week, put it to the Arkansas maybe once a month and that's it. For me 1095 is plenty fine for performance and the classic "old, worn look" it acquires over time is quaint.
Why GEC has chosen 1095 vs an ancient iron type steel of earlier centuries is (I believe) because the "target period" of their traditional pocket knives is the 1890-1930 time period. This is considered by many to have been the heyday of pocket knives, when cutlers were putting out very well made knives to the masses - some of the best ever produced to this day.
Another analogy might be that the pocket knives most often found discussed here (Case, GEC, Buck, Old Timer, Camillus, etc) are sort of like 1950's era cars compared to the Model T era (the ancient 1600's technology example Dean mentioned). "We love the 50's classics!" here. We like old knives, but not THAT OLD?
Thanks for the great discussion Dean! :thumbup:
Well put Thanks
So true. In my case I fish a lot and that means cutting bait. I started using stainless when I discovered the buck 301.
It depends on your cutting needs, for some to go beyond 1095 or 420HC there would be no benefit. For others it might be D2 or CPM154 where the law of diminishing returns kicks in.
I think that for slip joints and how they should be used, that the point of diminishing returns happens before it does on a fixed blade.
You also have to realize that some people will parrot, "1095! 1095! Polly wants 1095!", for the simple reason that it is the most common carbon steel used in knives. They say 1095 when they really mean carbon steel because 01 and the others don't roll of their tongue (or brain) as easily. Many modern carbon steel companies use 1095 because it sells; have a 01 custom blade but you won't find many retail knives with 01 and D2 will seem like a McDonald's upsize thing.
We are talking about traditionals here so I think many people (regardless of the name) want a carbon blade over the new stainless because that is what they used back in the "good ol' days".
I own a fair size traditional folder collection and what matters to me is the company name and it being cheap. If I was to buy a new traditional folder in the $100 range (I'd sooner buy a modern locking/opening folder then) I'd want modern steel that keeps an edge and keeps it new look. I love carbon on fixed blades, but outside of vintage traditionals, I prefer stainless on folders because of body sweat pocket carry and being harder to clean.
PS I thought I knew my steels until one day this year when I opened a seldom bought knife mag (I'd rather put that $10 on my next knife than on paper) and read about ???? and ???? and ????, wha? All these new knife steels I have never heard about. There will always be new steels, it just plan sells knives when a maker can offer a knife in the new xyz steel 5 years before all the other companies make xyz into a common steel.
We are talking about traditionals here so I think many people (regardless of the name) want a carbon blade over the new stainless because that is what they used back in the "good ol' days".
I own a fair size traditional folder collection and what matters to me is the company name and it being cheap. If I was to buy a new traditional folder in the $100 range (I'd sooner buy a modern locking/opening folder then) I'd want modern steel that keeps an edge and keeps it new look. I love carbon on fixed blades, but outside of vintage traditionals, I prefer stainless on folders because of body sweat pocket carry and being harder to clean.
PS I thought I knew my steels until one day this year when I opened a seldom bought knife mag (I'd rather put that $10 on my next knife than on paper) and read about ???? and ???? and ????, wha? All these new knife steels I have never heard about. There will always be new steels, it just plan sells knives when a maker can offer a knife in the new xyz steel 5 years before all the other companies make xyz into a common steel.
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kamagong
Gold Member
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- Jan 13, 2001
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This thread is amusing because it's mostly academic. Slipjoints don't often come with newer steel. CPM154, 3V, you won't see any of those unless you go custom. In the factory setting you see 1095, 420HC, and the 440 steels because those are the easiest to heat treat.
I like both old and new. I probably have more 1095 than anything, but the best steel I've ever used in a slip joint is the BG42 in my Queen/Burke Rancher.
I like both old and new. I probably have more 1095 than anything, but the best steel I've ever used in a slip joint is the BG42 in my Queen/Burke Rancher.
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I have only started my venture into traditional knives recently and though blade steel has been a big deal for me with modern folders this thread is the first time I have even considered it with the traditional knives. I have been having so much fun finding them in garage sales, pawn shops and such that it has never entered my old thick skull. Thanks to the OP for the wake up call. I have my first GEC coming this week (along with a Small Sebenza 21 old habits are hard to break) and never considered anything but the fact it was a Barlow and it seems most you folks feel they are great knives and I want to try one.. I don't even know what kind of blade steel it uses which is odd for me. As an example I only bought my Blur because it was made with ELMAX. Anyway here's what I've managed to accumulate so far and don't know what steel any of them uses.
