Old vs. New Buck?

[BG42EDGE]

BG42EDGE:

Are you calling the Bucks liars by hinting that the bolt-cutting was fake?

Resp: The bolt cutting was for temper testing steel, no it wasn't fake.

Well there you are. You've just admitted that 440C was hammered through bolts to prove the superiority of 440C blades. Nothing could be more clear than that (although the record will show that this was more marketing and publicity than test, since the demonstration was done at shows and to impress potential dealers).

BG42EDGE:

Buck has already proved that 440C will do it and has the pictures and........HAD the famous Logo to prove it.

Resp: A logo is advertising, not "proof".

A Logo is proof when it is documented and backed up by a photographic record and that Logo documents actual demonstrations that were done as marketing with pictures taken and published to impress dealers and buyers.

BG42EDGE:

It fails to persuade because they went many years with the Logo and the other steels and then just changed it right after the powdered S30V hit the market and the reports of edge-rolling and chipping started to come in.

Resp: The early reports that I saw (re. edge rolling and chipping) were not about Bos HT S30V Buck knives.

Actually, Goose reported a case of chipping on this forum that was BOS HT S30V.

Bottom line here is that to say that S30V steel is superior to 440C is unwarranted hype. Both steels have some good qualities and bad.

The reason S30V is now used is that its cheaper to manufacture and easier for dubs to sharpen.

 

[BG42EDGE]

Why does the military order its special tactical knives today with G-10 and S30V instead of 440C?

Because Buck no longer offers 440C.

 

[BG42EDGE]

By the way......I DO realize that modern manufacturing methods dictate the use of S30V or similar steels that lend themselves well to mass production and mass profit.......and that 440C is history and can never be brought back.

I just hate to see people malign an excellent steel like 440C and over-hype S30V (which has its own weaknesses and issues).

 

[peterinct]

By the way......I DO realize that modern manufacturing methods dictate the use of S30V or similar steels that lend themselves well to mass production and mass profit.......and that 440C is history and can never be brought back.

I just hate to see people malign an excellent steel like 440C and over-hype S30V (which has its own weaknesses and issues).

+1 :thumbup: AND i'm not saying one steel is better than the other as EVERY steel has inherent strengths and weaknesses.

There are those that dislike stainless, and swear nothing holds an edge like carbon steels, but for some uses, carbon steel is a liability, as it has the potential to rust and pit.

I don't think you will find ANYONE that knows steel that will say 440C is NOT a good quality blade steel.

One of the smartest steps Buck took was to have BOS do the heat treating. No matter WHAT steel a blade is made from, heat treatment is CRITICAL to performing well.

Funny thing is: MANY of the knives being discussed will never be used so the steel used for the blade is a moot point!

How many of you guys that LOVE those blade etches plan to use them?

Peter

 

[Plumberdv]

How many of you guys that LOVE those blade etches plan to use them?

Peter

When did this turn to the use of etched blades? I was under the impression that the discussion was about new vs old.

 

[wolfdog]

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfdog
Why does the military order its special tactical knives today with G-10 and S30V instead of 440C?

Because Buck no longer offers 440C.

I was actually referring to a special order of an dozen tactical knives made for a special forces unit by a small knife making company who posted on another forum, not Buck. The special forces unit chose the steel.

I just hate to see people malign an excellent steel like 440C and over-hype S30V (which has its own weaknesses and issues).

Who is maligning 440C? It's a great steel. However, for my uses I've found S30V to be better, so my EDCs are S30V. I am entitled to my opinions am I not? I started out my contribution to this discussion with

I place Bos-S30V superior to the other steels Buck has used, including 440C.

This was based on my personal experience, not hype.
Use what you like.

BTW cutting nails was a method of testing blade steel used by 19th century by blacksmiths.

 

[jb4570]

Wow folks,

The OP asked for opinions on the quality of old Buck knives -VS- new Buck knives. Now opinions are like A-holes everyone has one. We have taken the thread into overseas -VS- US made, and now into this blade steel is better than that. Each of these thread directions can be pulled into a quality issue of old -VS- new, I guess. But, lets respect each others opinions as we are all different and want and need/expect different results from our gear. Therefore, we will have opinions based on our individual needs and my needs will not be the same as your needs, period. Enough from me on this topic, gentlemen we should all agree to disagree, or you can keep arguing your specific need/want (it's not the same as the next guys). Ding, Ding, come out of your corners and keep the fight clean, no hitting below the belt! LOL
jb4570

 

[BG42EDGE]

Hands down, Bos-S30V is superior to 440C.

Such an inaccurate generalization is maligning 440C because both steels have their good points and bad points and one is not markedly superior to the other in all things and all applications.

And......is PlumberD getting a little defensive about his gilt-washed baubles?

The guy was just making a point about steel.

Chill, Plumber!!!

 

[skyhorse]

http://www.northamericanknives.com/knife_steels Old isn't always better!

 

[BG42EDGE]

Just sometimes.

 

[wolfdog]

Originally Posted by wolfdog
Hands down, Bos-S30V is superior to 440C.

This is my opinion based on my use of both steels (and other steels, BTW).

Such an inaccurate generalization is maligning 440C because both steels have their good points and bad points and one is not markedly superior to the other in all things and all applications.

I was just stating my opinion based on my observation and my use.

I would call the following maligning:

They don't do that with the new powdered (powder puff) S30V steel.

In fact, they're trying to wipe that test from memory by changing their Logo--eliminating the old anvil/knife/hammer/bolt Logo.

Were you involved in the decision making process to change the logo or have inside information on the discussions that led to it? ?

 

[skyhorse]

Just want to say all the steel used in Buck knives is of the highest quality in that particular class of steel and their heat treatment is legendary.

 

[wolfdog]

Just want to say all the steel used in Buck knives is of the highest quality in that particular class of steel and their heat treatment is legendary.

I agree, as I said, Old or New, they are great knives.

 

[BG42EDGE]

I agree that Buck knives, old or new, are great knives, although I don't know if it can be stretched to "highest quality in that particular class of steel." That's a reach. Maybe there should be an industry-wide competition with a winner named.

Were you involved in the decision making process to change the logo or have inside information on the discussions that led to it? ?

No, were you? Do you have inside information? No, you don't.

Where does that leave you? Same boat with the rest of us.

Since there were no media representatives at all those meetings either, we'll never get any information from an unbiased source because anybody allowed into those kinds of meetings is a highly biased source.

All we can do is look at the facts and use logic and deduction. Not perfect, but it's what we have. Circumstantial evidence has proven correct in many cases. The Logo change coincided remarkably well with the adoption of S30V as primary premium steel.

I agree that I malign S30V, but I do it because others malign 440C.......and I really only call S30V powder-puff steel in jest (although it IS made from powder) in a way similar to the way 110 Dave is jesting when he calls the 112 a girlie knife.

Then again, maybe 110 Dave is serious, it's hard to be sure the way he writes.

 

[J Hubbard]

The Logo change coincided remarkably well with the adoption of S30V as primary premium steel.

The change in logo had nothing whatsoever to do with any change in steels or any mechanical event.

S30V VS 440c is like Ford VS Chevy VS Dodge. Never gonna be resolved. Even though those of us that drive Fords know the truth regardless of what Govt Motors says

 

[BG42EDGE]

Just a coincidence, I'm sure.

(Unbiased source?)

 

[Stelth]

I agree that I malign S30V, but I do it because others malign 440C

I gotta ask...why isn't your forum name "440C Edge"?

 

[skyhorse]

The change in logo had nothing whatsoever to do with any change in steels or any mechanical event.

S30V VS 440c is like Ford VS Chevy VS Dodge. Never gonna be resolved. Even though those of us that drive Fords know the truth regardless of what Govt Motors says

Please note neither of these products were funded by taxpayers money!:thumbup:

 

[postfallsidaho]

The change in logo had nothing whatsoever to do with any change in steels or any mechanical event.

Thank you!!! Hearing that straight from Buck warms my heart!!!!

S30V VS 440c is like Ford VS Chevy VS Dodge. Never gonna be resolved. Even though those of us that drive Fords know the truth regardless of what Govt Motors says

Please note neither of these products were funded by taxpayers money!:thumbup:

You guys are awesome!!! :thumbup:


I gotta give a shout out though, to my other favorite... Jeep! (sorry about the bugs on the Ford emblem, the lakeflies are big this year, and its a daily driver )

There, this thread went from old knives VS. new knives, 440 VS. S30V, etched blades VS. Non-etched, vehicle brand VS.vehicle brand. I think we covered them all LOL

 

[skyhorse]

The steel in this old truck is better than the new ones!