On Everest it has come down to survival of the lowest.

I was not sincere with my revolver scenario.

The one thing I might do that has not been mentioned (I think) is stay with him till the end. Give up the summit goal and stay until he goes. I would appreciate someone doing that for me if I were alone and dying.



munk
 
munk said:
I was not sincere with my revolver scenario.

The one thing I might do that has not been mentioned (I think) is stay with him till the end. Give up the summit goal and stay until he goes. I would appreciate someone doing that for me if I were alone and dying.



munk
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Munk, I seriously have never experienced the types of conditions that are reported on such climbs, but some others chimed in earlier concerning staying with him until his death.
One person had said that it would have been very deadly to stay put in such a location for any steady length of time.

I really don't know how true that is, but if it's true, I don't know if it would be fair to ask someone to stay until the person expired. Stopping and trying to comfort him for a little while would have been a bare minimal compassionate thing to do, IMO, but staying until his expiration would only be rational (IMO) if it did not include the cost of your own life as well.

This topic is really very good. I have enjoyed reading the forumite's views. Without me being a mountain climber, without me being able to really imagine the conditions these folks found themselves in, without me knowing the facts of survival under such conditions, all of my personal views may be wrong, more so than I could ever imagine.

Wish I was omniscient on this subject, but being that I'm far from it, I'll just continue hoping that nothing was done because of the situation's realities, not because it would have gotten in the way of anybody's personal goals.
 
...and about staying with him:

"One person had said that it would have been very deadly to stay put in such a location for any steady length of time." as reported by Jimmy J.


So, apparently you can walk past the guy, climb to the summit, and pass him again on your way down, but whatever you do, don't help him, and don't stay with him, as you might die.

This guy must have been Satan incarnate to be this deadly.


munk
 
Well, the problem is that if then guy is dieing and we go help him, we may be endangering our own lives right?
 
Being as sick as I was for so very long I gave a great deal of thought about death and dieing.
I finally had an epiphany... It finally dawned on me that no matter how many of your friend's, relatives, or even strangers that are around you that when you walk West you walk West all alone.
Death is something that no one knows anything for certain about except that the person quits breathing and doesn't ever wake up again.
I used to worry that I would be extremely frightened at the moment of my demise until I had this epiphany and I realized that dieing a natural death or from any serious disease would be just exactly like drifting off to sleep.
You might hurt from the pain of an injury or a disease but death in and of itself is painless.
At that point I ceased to worry about my demise and what I would feel.
If I knew the exact moment of my demise I might worry about what my loved ones would feel and I would feel sadness because of thier sadness but I know for absolute certainity that I will "feel" nothing, not even a release.

And actually death and dieing aren't really good words at all. We never ever really "die" we just experience a transition from one plane to another.:thumbup: :cool: :D
But we do "Experience" it all alone in the sense that no one can go with us but even then we aren't totally alone except for the instant of time it takes us to traverse from one side to the other as we are met instantly on the other side.
The man met his passing in the way he was supposed to it seems to me.
 
munk said:
[...] So, apparently you can walk past the guy, climb to the summit, and pass him again on your way down, but whatever you do, don't help him, and don't stay with him, as you might die. [...]
Click to expand...

Munk, I think it would likely be less dangerous to save him than to stay with him. If you dont move, you loose heat very quickly. The only way to stay alive in such cold conditions [and even less cold conditions] is to keep moving.

That being said, it seems less risky to try to get him down than to stay with him. I dont know if it's still a deadly risk though.

Keno
 
I have not read the 7 some odd pages prior but.....

All ethics aside (and that's a whopping big aside) I think people who are thinking about climbing this mountain would be smart to realize that they will be climbing in a cold heartless crowd--and plan accordingly.

I'm glad this story came out and I hope all Everest hopefulls read it and take it to heart.

My personal take: if I left a man dying who I could have helped--maybe even a little (cause you don't know until you stop and try) I would be unable to face myself in the mirror. It would haunt me. And that is a fate worse than wasting 35,000.00 dollars and not making the summit.
 
The 40 people who walked on by had a choice: attempt to save a human being or climb a mountain.
The attempt to save him may have been unsuccesful but I think it would have been a better memory to carry than the one they have now.
Regards
Pinpoint
 
walters.gif


Ain't it the truth.
 
richardallen said:
Munk, I think it would likely be less dangerous to save him than to stay with him. If you dont move, you loose heat very quickly. The only way to stay alive in such cold conditions [and even less cold conditions] is to keep moving.

That being said, it seems less risky to try to get him down than to stay with him. I dont know if it's still a deadly risk though.

Keno
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Yes, that was what I understood the other poster was trying to say about staying in one location like that. That it would have "greatly" increased your own chances of dying.

Again, I don't know if that holds water or not. I'm only saying that if it does, and these men chose to not stay with him for any real length of time because of that real threat to their own lives, it may be a bit harsh to judge them as being inhumane. Again, that's if staying too long would have been itself considered suicidal.

Not knowing every crucial detail makes for a lot of holes in our thinking on this matter. Too many if's, what's, or but's.

I guess it may be one of those situations where the actual realities would one way or the other have helped make one's decision whether to believe it was best to try and save him, stay until he expired, stay for a short time to give him some sort of comfort, or any other possible option.

I personally feel, without knowing all the facts or being a qualified person to really understand those horrible mountain conditions, that I know myself enough to know I would have had to have done something. That something, if I was a qualified person, may have been as little as giving the dying man a bit of comfort before I moved on,............... that is if the other options would have placed me in a situation where my own survival would have been greatly diminished. I would need to show "some" compassion, though doing something suicidal would not be one of them.

I may feel a bit guilty admitting this, but if it were one of my children or my wife, and if there were no way I could have saved them, I could not have left them alone to die. I could not have beared to live with that. I would have stayed there and peacefully went to sleep with them forever.

Does that mean that I love my fellow man less than my closest loved ones?............... Yes, it does,.............. way less.

If that makes me a bad person, sorry, but it's my own reality.
 
"Lakpa Tharke Sherpa stood naked for about three minutes after reaching the summit on Wednesday," Ishwori Poudel, managing director of the Himalayan Guides Nepal Trek and Expeditions, told AFP.
Click to expand...

From the link provided by Tedwca:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/nepaleve...BhBHNlYwM5NjQ-

Teams have also been know to spend stormy nights up above camp iv by digging snow caves to take shelter. But, these were competent climbers; not marginal tourist being carefully led up a frozen rock by guides. The decision may have come down to "spare a couple of guides to help the injured man and risk losing half-a-dozen other bozos who have no business being on that mountain."

n2s
 
Hi All-

Another thing to bear in mind about the Sherpa guides is they spend their entire lives at 15,000+ feet and their powerful lung capacity is far beyond that of normal people. What is a "rough day on the mountain" for them would likely be fatal to someone who lives closer to sea level.

~ Blue Jays ~
 
Another thing to bear in mind about the Sherpa guides is they spend their entire lives at 15,000+ feet and their powerful lung capacity is far beyond that of normal people. What is a "rough day on the mountain" for them would likely be fatal to someone who lives closer to sea level.>>>>>> Blue Jays


Yes, but how long would they last in New York City?



munk
 
Hi All-
munk said:
"...Yes, but how long would they last in New York City?..."
Click to expand...
Sherpas are able to thrive above 15,000 feet, but they probably wouldn't do well above 102nd Street.

~ Blue Jays ~
 
<<<<<<<Gentlemen, be advised that the owner of Himalayan imports is a Sherpa.
--Mike L. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Not to worry. She appreciates humor.
Yangdu actually knows Edmund Hillary. Kind of interesting- smaller world than we think, sometimes.



munk
 
Hi Mike L.-

That's more of humorous crack on New Yorkers than it is on Sherpas anyway...

~ Blue Jays ~
 
If we can't joke we might as well be artichokes....no, that means nothing.
I'm on my way to Malta for a eat.




munk
 
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/05/27/everest-rescue.html

Coincidentally, the CBC News website has a story up right now, about a Canadian climber who halted his Everest ascent to save an Australian who had been left for dead by his party. He was about 200M from the top, but decided that saving a life was more important than summitting.

Brash was only 200 metres from the summit when he decided to abandon his climb and help the Australian, his wife said.

It was Brash's second attempt in the last two weeks to reach the top of the world's tallest mountain.

"I'm sure he has some mixed emotions, maybe not right now, but in the future he might, and it will probably haunt him for the rest of his life," she said.

"But I know that he'll be happy with his decision, and it's a greater achievement than actually reaching the summit, to be part of saving someone's life."
Click to expand...

Apparently, on this day at least, it was possible. Makes one wonder, no?

t.
 
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