On makers still using proprietary pivots.

I

Iliveocean

Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
606
It’s 2020, why can’t everyone just get on board and make a pivot hole I can stick my wiha in. I really like some of the designs, but those funky pivots are a dealbreaker.
 
Well because some people like to stick their junky tools where they don't belong and then cry it wasn't their fault when they round out, strip , or maladjust something.

All that stuff turns up on those IG clickbait knives though so it doesn't affect me.
 
Here is the way I see it.
Universal pivot > More Warranty returns > but also more sales.

A few extra screws with every knife you build shouldn’t be a problem and it’ll take care of the majority of the warranty work.

One example I can remember is:
Chris Reeve who went from proprietary zaans to universal. I bet he would tell you that he sold more after the change.

Now playing devils advocate you have Microtech who changed from torx to proprietary. Microtech may be the only company I’d buy from that can pull off propriety hardware.
 
Iliveocean said:
Here is the way I see it.
Universal pivot > More Warranty returns > but also more sales.

A few extra screws with every knife you build shouldn’t be a problem and it’ll take care of the majority of the warranty work.

One example I can remember is:
Chris Reeve who went from proprietary zaans to universal. I bet he would tell you that he sold more after the change.

Now playing devils advocate you have Microtech who changed from torx to proprietary. Microtech may be the only company I’d buy from that can pull off propriety hardware.
Click to expand...

Microtech started out with Bristol Spine Drive (which is obscure as F, and easy to mistake for torx, resulting in a lot of stripped out screw heads). Eventually they gave up and went to torx, and then to their annoying proprietary drives.

I will say however, that given the mechanisms inside many auto knives, especially double action side openers like the SOCOM DA, and the compressed springs on the HALO series, I wouldn't want to encourage tinkering, so I understand them wanting to lock those down. If you really feel a need to tinker you can get the right screwdriver, at least it discourages the casual ham handed idiots.
 
I have acquired a collection of several dozen arcane bits over the years, something like the old British Whitworth tools that you needed if you had a Land Rover to wrench on. I think Whitworth was based on the distance between two ale houses. Have to agree that Torx should be the standard. And one of the things I like Emersons for is the screw pivot you can adjust with a coin.
 
Iliveocean said:
Universal pivot > More Warranty returns > but also more sales.
Click to expand...

Most of the companies with proprietary pivots are not hurting for sales. Changing the pivot really would not make that much of a difference to them. Why would a company want MORE warranty claims? Also, why do you need to disassemble a knife? Almost all arr able to be cleaned without disassembly
 
unwisefool said:
Most of the companies with proprietary pivots are not hurting for sales. Changing the pivot really would not make that much of a difference to them. Why would a company want MORE warranty claims? Also, why do you need to disassemble a knife? Almost all arr able to be cleaned without disassembly
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Aside from the presumption that changing a proprietary pivot to a universal wouldn’t effect sales the main argument would be that mechanically declined people strip screws and loose hardware.

Having a universal pivot can also lead to less warranty claims.

I can’t tell you how many knives I’ve done minor adjustments to and corrected small issues such as the blade favoring one side or the other. Instead of needing to send the knife in for warranty/spa or whatever it may be I can do it myself.
 
For as many people who want standard hardware for ease of maintenance and disassembly, there are just as many who don’t care and will never really use the knife to the extent where tinkering with the hardware would be required. So many people nowadays are into the EDC trend where they carry knives that don’t really get used, mostly just collectors taking pics of their gear. Which is cool and all, they support this hobby too.

I think you just need to buy knives that are geared more towards actual use, like Spydercos or CRK :D:D:D
 
Iliveocean said:
Here is the way I see it.
Universal pivot > More Warranty returns > but also more sales.

A few extra screws with every knife you build shouldn’t be a problem and it’ll take care of the majority of the warranty work.

One example I can remember is:
Chris Reeve who went from proprietary zaans to universal. I bet he would tell you that he sold more after the change.

Now playing devils advocate you have Microtech who changed from torx to proprietary. Microtech may be the only company I’d buy from that can pull off propriety hardware.
Click to expand...

My guess is that for a company like CRK, proprietary hardware is a PR nightmare. When you actively encourage people to take apart and clean their knives, i think it makes more sense to just be a standard screw set. Why? Well proprietary wrenches get lost. Right now, if i wanted to take apart my Inkosi, I could drive to Lowes and have the tools to do it in a matter of minutes. If its proprietary, I may try to figure out something that works "good enough". Obviously this means I will probably strip the screw. So now I have to send my Zaan back to CRK to remove the old screw and put in a new one. Its obviously my fault but I may complain that if the screw didn't take such a funky bit, I could have handled it.

So now you have a sour customer and a choice to make, warrant something that isn't warranty or risk someone badmouthing your company because they spent $450 on a knife and something as simple as a screw isn't warranted. I don't blame Mr Reeve for going universal in that regard. Top notch service and repair is baked into the price of the CRK, but there is no need to shoot yourself in the foot on purpose.

Now there are plenty of other knives that just don't need to he taken apart by the end user. Just because you want to tinker doesn't mean its within the design for your to do so. 99.9% of all knives will need nothing more than an occasional squirt of gun scrub and a drop of oil at the pivot to last for decades.

So that brings us to knives that are sold to you as a durable good and not sold to you as a warranty. By that I mean manufacturers that expect you to buy their product and then be on your way only contacting them is something is wrong with the knife. CRK actively encourages you to send your knife in for a Spa Treatment once your knife is used to the point you can no longer maintain it yourself, and this idea of a company going out of its way to encourage that builds a brand based on warranty instead of materials.

I can see where a manufacturer selling the product over the service would want to discourage you from opening up their knife and monkeying something up. Lock it down and wait for you to send in a broken knife and see where the warranty agreement stands.
 
Iliveocean said:
It’s 2020, why can’t everyone just get on board and make a pivot hole I can stick my wiha in. I really like some of the designs, but those funky pivots are a dealbreaker.
Click to expand...

Whoa whoa whoa! This is a family friendly forum here!
 
Life pro tip: if you take a plastic pen and remove the ink, then heat the tip of the pen and press it onto a microtech screw it will melt to the screw shape. Free proprietary tool. Save 20 bucks.
 
Zerobladeplay said:
Life pro tip: if you take a plastic pen and remove the ink, then heat the tip of the pen and press it onto a microtech screw it will melt to the screw shape. Free proprietary tool. Save 20 bucks.
Click to expand...

I know all the little tricks! You can use your cordless drill to get the glass breaker off.


soc_monki said:
Whoa whoa whoa! This is a family friendly forum here!
Click to expand...

I know, it’s just that I was looking at my slim midi here wishing, wishing that I could take it apart.
 
I respectfully disagree. I think even Torx is "too much". The vast majority of people only own flatheads/Phillips.

I respect Shirogorov because I can use fingernails or coins to adjust the screws if need be. I never understood knife companies who market to LEO, outdoors-men, operators, etc and demand drivers that are specialized. Even as a trades guy, I won't have a T6 and T9 on demand but I damn sure have a dime lying in my cupholder.
 
screw together was done for easier assembly at the factory, not really for tinkering at home and constant disassembly. if i was a manufacturer I'd cringe with what I see posted on forums and social media with people playing mechanic. some are skilled and great. many are not and still play and then complain when they mess it up. see it about monthly here.

I get your knife do what ya want, that isn't the issue. its more warranty claims from botched backyard knife making.

I have really old pinned knives, I've never needed to disassemble to clean or any other reason.
 
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