One man's journey to find the perfect EDC, a journal.

[itsafire]

That gap is why the grip on the Bugout is so good. They could have covered it up by doing what so many other makers do - extending the grip to cover it, which forces your lower grip further from the blade. When it comes to knives in this size class, getting a real 4-finger grip with the index finger close to the cutting edge, without resorting to lopping off a big part of the cutting edge for a finger choil, is pretty important to me. I'll take that gap over having my grip pushed back.

The lower grip hand position is easily in my top 3 design characteristics of what I look for in a great design for a folder. It amazes me at how horribly so many companies do it. For all the flack Benchmade gets, I really like some of the intentional design decisions on the Bugout that makes it what it is.

I took a long hard look on the Bugout and do have to agree with you. Making that portion of the blade longer would require to move the axis lock, which is in the perfect position as is.
Maybe a craftier person than me would have been able to pull it off, though. I'm not a knife designer, I'm just a regular guy who grossly overthinks this whole thing.
I see how the spine on the 'chef disappears into the handle in a seamless way and how the Bugout has that edge sticking out like a sore thumb. I complain about it.

 

[itsafire]

Personally, I don't understand the obsession with deep carry and concealment which pervades the hobby, particularly since this hobby is knives and not something weird like furry fandom or feet pics.

If it were me, I would have stopped at the Sebenza, but...actually, wait, no, that's what I did.

I envy you for stopping at the Sebenza. I would have loved that.

As to the deep carry thing:
I usually find myself within the EU and there are different laws regarding knives in different countries.
For me, a deep carry clip that conceals the nature of the object that is attached to it is a means of convenience.
I have a knife in my pocket, basically at all times - and sometimes, it's the wrong knife for the place - so I prefer when it's not noticed.
On top of that, in certain places, people might frown upon an inch of knife protruding from your pants.

 

[itsafire]

Egg salad sandwiches at the gas station are an extremely close second!

I'd love to try a $11.99 egg sandwich from a gas station. For purely academic purposes.

 

[itsafire]

Introducing the dilemma:

Namely, the Sandrin Monza with the zirconium scales.
For those of you that have never heard of these, they do tungsten carbide blades that are insanely hard.
I've actually had this one for a couple of days already, but I wanted to wait on the Spyderco before I make up my mind about anything.
My initial thought was that I unbox the Spyderco, appreciate it, and then send it back because of some minor detail that bugs me.
Because that Sandrin is every bit as impressive as advertised.
It's slim, but not so slim that there are any edges that dig in your hand (well, apart from the obvious one I mean).
The lock mechanism seems weird, but the people who handled one all seem to agree that it looks weird when it's presented to you and you go and think "That looks uncomfortable and also it might close on me when I grip it hard". Then you fidget around with it for five minutes and then you really like it. I was the same. Highly doubtful about it, I wanted to see that blade in person and had it ordered. The size is perfect. The ergonomics are perfect. The moment I found out that it works best for me when I use my index finger to push the lock, I realized that it can be used the same way the Bugout can be used - you can flick it open with the right timing so your wrist barely moves and you can flick it back, too - when you grip it right, all your fingers are out of the way and there's no danger of getting caught. That design makes it a true ambidextrous knife, like the Bugout.
The Zirconium feels great, this super fine milled texture really gives it a good grip and my hand gets a perfect four finger grip, yet again with no room to spare. the jimping on the spine of the blade follows a gentle curve that feels like your thumb is sitting down in a very expensive comfy chair.
The look of the blade is something you can either like or intensely dislike - I personally like it. The looks are all up my alley. The ergonomics are perfect for my hand size. The fidget factor is quite addictive - especially since the heavier metals that are used here provide a bit more oomph to the sound it makes when the blade hits the lock.
The clip is deep carry and it slides in and out of the pocket effortlessly.

What's not to like?
I only managed to find one immediate thing so far:
That kind of lock pushes against the blade inside the handle. When you push it back and rotate the blade, it travels as smooth as you'd expect a blade that runs on ceramic bearings would. However, when you use the intended (slow) way to open it,
it feels a bit scratchy.
Now this could be the blade or it could be the lock. If it's the blade, then this is permanent because I doubt the lock will be able to grind it smooth with time. If it's the lock, then it'll eventually get there.

And of course, there's the elephant in the room. This thing is made of tungsten carbide and has a whopping 71HRC hardness. That essentially means that all my means of sharpening a knife will fail against this.
S90V is tough to sharpen (for me) and Benchmade places the Bugout's steel at 60HRC.
This also means that it'll take a lot of time to dull. I think with my Bugout, I got about half a year of use out of the factory grind. I'm not very good at sharpening, so my own grinds don't last as long.
According to their numbers, a Sandrin blade will keep its edge around 5 times longer than a 'super steel' blade, which would mean I'd get about two and a half years before I need to worry about sharpening it - and with such a long time it can go without resharpening, I could really hand it off to a professional when the time comes.

 

[itsafire]

So what's the dilemma here?

I wanted a new knife, bought a Sebenza, did not like it and started looking around for something that could scratch that itch.
Continuing at the pace I'm going, even if I pull the brakes right now ...

I have ordered Bugout titanium scales from 11Spartans, a new set of screws and thumb stud and a titanium back spacer to get it all grey and boring.

If that goes as planned, the Bugout will feel a lot more substantial and thoroughly upgraded.
The Manly Wasp will stay in my rotation for the sole purpose that it is the one knife that does not have issues with being legal to carry over most of the EU.
I can easily justify owning a third knife - but as of now, I have four.

 

[ddallam]

Both very valid and good suggestions.

I might consider upgrading the Bugout, but one Issue I have with it is the feeling of the omega springs when operating the axis lock.

The iMamba is on my shortlist, but it's not super easy to get right now.

You path matches my own. I settled on the QuietCarry Waypoint. It’s everything a medium Sebenza should be.

 

[Mannlicher]

there are times when I really believe we just over think things.

 

[BluegrassBrian]

Introducing the dilemma:

Namely, the Sandrin Monza with the zirconium scales.
For those of you that have never heard of these.
I've actually had this one for a couple of days already, but I wanted to wait on the Spyderco before I make up my mind about anything.
My initial thought was that I unbox the Spyderco, appreciate it, and then send it back because of some minor detail that bugs me.
Because that Sandrin is every bit as impressive as advertised.
It's slim, but not so slim that there are any edges that dig in your hand (well, apart from the obvious one I mean).
The lock mechanism seems weird, but the people who handled one all seem to agree that it looks weird when it's presented to you and you go and think "That looks uncomfortable and also it might close on me when I grip it hard". Then you fidget around with it for five minutes and then you really like it. I was the same. Highly doubtful about it, I wanted to see that blade in person and had it ordered. The size is perfect. The ergonomics are perfect. The moment I found out that it works best for me when I use my index finger to push the lock, I realized that it can be used the same way the Bugout can be used - you can flick it open with the right timing so your wrist barely moves and you can flick it back, too - when you grip it right, all your fingers are out of the way and there's no danger of getting caught. That design makes it a true ambidextrous knife, like the Bugout.
The Zirconium feels great, this super fine milled texture really gives it a good grip and my hand gets a perfect four finger grip, yet again with no room to spare. the jimping on the spine of the blade follows a gentle curve that feels like your thumb is sitting down in a very expensive comfy chair.
The look of the blade is something you can either like or intensely dislike - I personally like it. The looks are all up my alley. The ergonomics are perfect for my hand size. The fidget factor is quite addictive - especially since the heavier metals that are used here provide a bit more oomph to the sound it makes when the blade hits the lock.
The clip is deep carry and it slides in and out of the pocket effortlessly.

What's not to like?
I only managed to find one immediate thing so far:
That kind of lock pushes against the blade inside the handle. When you push it back and rotate the blade, it travels as smooth as you'd expect a blade that runs on ceramic bearings would. However, when you use the intended (slow) way to open it,
it feels a bit scratchy.
Now this could be the blade or it could be the lock. If it's the blade, then this is permanent because I doubt the lock will be able to grind it smooth with time. If it's the lock, then it'll eventually get there.

And of course, there's the elephant in the room. This thing is made of tungsten carbide and has a whopping 71HRC hardness. That essentially means that all my means of sharpening a knife will fail against this.
S90V is tough to sharpen (for me) and Benchmade places the Bugout's steel at 60HRC.
This also means that it'll take a lot of time to dull. I think with my Bugout, I got about half a year of use out of the factory grind. I'm not very good at sharpening, so my own grinds don't last as long.
According to their numbers, a Sandrin blade will keep its edge around 5 times longer than a 'super steel' blade, which would mean I'd get about two and a half years before I need to worry about sharpening it - and with such a long time it can go without resharpening, I could really hand it off to a professional when the time comes.

The "zipperish" feel when slow closing it (from my closest observation) is due to the almost "coined" edge of the tang riding up against the lock mechanism.
Why couldn't they have smoothed out the tang edge? I dunno. Maybe they like the buzzy feeling.
It's there and not going away, so I've learned to accept it lol.

As far as sharpening goes- when the time comes, it's going to be a.. fun challenge.
Diamond plates will do the job, but you'd almost have to use some sort of jig- Edge Pro or Wicked Edge type.

I've read that the official servicer/sharpener in the US doesn't do their stock "Dual Bevel" edge- just a regular single bevel. So when it's time to try, I'm going to have to really pay attention and feel it out.

 

[itsafire]

As far as sharpening goes- when the time comes, it's going to be a.. fun challenge.
Diamond plates will do the job, but you'd almost have to use some sort of jig- Edge Pro or Wicked Edge type.

I've read that the official servicer/sharpener in the US doesn't do their stock "Dual Bevel" edge- just a regular single bevel. So when it's time to try, I'm going to have to really pay attention and feel it out.

I guess I would rather hunt down Sandrin directly in Italy and ask them for a factory grind.

 

[itsafire]

there are times when I really believe we just over think things.

This thread is a safe space for overthinkers.
It's celebrated here. Come and overthink all you like - share your overthoughts!

 

[BluegrassBrian]

I guess I would rather hunt down Sandrin directly in Italy and ask them for a factory grind.

Not 100% certain if they do that.. maybe.
I do know they sell replacement blades, but no clue what the price would be.

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

Personally, I don't understand the obsession with deep carry and concealment which pervades the hobby, particularly since this hobby is knives and not something weird like furry fandom or feet pics.

If it were me, I would have stopped at the Sebenza, but...actually, wait, no, that's what I did.

For me, it's not about concealment... I just don't like the aesthetic of a having visible stuff clipped from my pockets in the same way I don't like wearing my cell phone on my belt.

I agree with OP, deep carry is a must for me either via the factory clip or aftermarket. Otherwise me no purchase.

 

[itsafire]

For me, it's not about concealment... I just don't like the aesthetic of a having visible stuff clipped from my pockets in the same way I don't like wearing my cell phone on my belt.

I agree with OP, deep carry is a must for me either via the factory clip or aftermarket. Otherwise me no purchase.

For me, it's pen, blade and light - with pen and blade, I insist on deep carry clips.

With lights, I'd like to, but the selection is seriously slimmed down, so I usually carry my light inside the pocket instead of clipped.

 

[itsafire]

Do you know those moments where the universe seems to nudge you towards something?

I was browsing the internet, looking for aftermarket deep carry clips that fit the Spydiechef - I'm not particularly fond of the wire clips and removed them on most Spyderco knifes I owned in the past.
I found one, but was not really decided whether or not to pull the trigger. I closed the browser, did something else and got up two minutes later. Upon rising from my chair, the wire clip caught on the arm rest of the chair and bent out of place.
I sat down, re-opened the browser and placed the order.

 

[itsafire]

Re-introducing the Bugout into the pool.
My main complaint about the knife not feeling substantial enough has been taken care of - by replacing the CF scales with titanium ones.
I had a bit of trouble getting the tiny screws to get a grip, but some gently applied brute force with the Knipex Cobra XS made them sit in their respective holes deep enough so they would grip.

The resulting knife has some more heft to it when you weigh it in your hand. It's not as super light as it was, but it's a far cry from being heavy.
The ergonomics are slightly different, especially the axis lock is seated a bit more recessed now, but it's still accessed well enough.

I do have to gain some experience with either of those newly acquired (or modified) knifes in my day to day life to see what sticks.
Just from handling them and some use I got out of them I wanna remark:

Spyderco Spydiechef:
The Spydiechef is, from the way it is made, close to the Sebenza - It's a beadblasted titanium framelock.
However, the Sebenza's scale have more thickness, resulting in a bit more weight and in a more satisfying operation of the lock. The click when it engages sounds and feels like there's more material involved. The Spydie is good enough in that regard, though. It travels smoothly, but with less friction than the Sebenza. Upon closing it, there is a tiny detent when you disengage the framelock and push the blade in. The Sebenza does not need that because the friction is higher, on the Spyderco, this prevents the blade from falling on your thumb.
Even after carrying it only for about a week, the areas that see some stress show first subtle signs of wear on the scales. On this knife, I'd say this is a plus. These big, unadorned flat surfaces are meant to get some 'patina'.
I do like the ergonomics of the mechanism and the blade. The handle is great and fits my hand like it's meant for me.
The factory grind was not the best I've ever seen, but topping it up with only two or three passes on the finest belt of my Ken Onion grinder remedied that.
I did cut some cardboard (well, a lot of it) at work and found that edge retention is not what S90V offers, but it's not as bad as 8cr13 either, I can live with that. It's easy to sharpen.

Sandrin Monza:
It still feels a bit weird carrying that blade. Well, it feels great. The zirconium rocks. The blade rocks. The clip is great and it's fidgety and has a great sound.
Cutting is ... it's something else. It feels a bit like you come from the world of dull kitchen knifes in your parents' kitchen and now you use a scalpel for the first time.
I know sharp knifes, yet this one feels like it's sharper than it ought to be.
At the same time, I'm still unsure about how that blade retains its sharpness, won't snap if I mistreat it (gently), and how to grind it should I need to.
I'm babying it more than I want to, but I guess once I've gathered some more experience with it, I'll drop those concerns one by one.
One small point of criticism: The detent in the resting position could be a tiny bit stronger. I've pulled it from my pocket twice with the blade partially exposed - and I felt like I was lucky I did not cut myself or my pants.

 

[itsafire]

I hate the term, but this clip is a gamechanger.
It is so much more solid than the bent paperclip that it comes with.

It's tighter and more rigid, but also easier to use. I just slide the knife into the pocket and it sits where it's supposed to.
Still not 100% deep carry but deep enough.

A $20 upgrade that makes the knife so much better, I'll have to recommend it as highly as I can.