Only ONE for self-defense
- Thread starter Santi
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If I could have only one Spydie it would be the Wegner.
I think a lot of people overlook it for a defensive knife because it is marketed as a folding hunter. Don't let that stop you from looking at the Wegner as a defensive knife.
Wegner defensive thread
Here are two extensive threads about the Wegner for defensive use in the Spyderco archive:
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum20/HTML/000170.html
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum20/HTML/001189.html
Tim Wegner himself responds about the
design.
Versatility
This knife is one of the most veratile designs I have seen. It excels as both utilty and defensive knife. Hopefully you would use it for utilty more than defense but if needed for defense it would be an excellent choice.
Ergonomics
The Wegner feels like it becomes an extension of your hand. The blade and handle design work together in such a way that the knife is very comfortable to use. The grip is also very secure.
My choice
The Wegner is my choice for a Spyderco defensive knife. I carry one on duty quite abit. I am very comfortable with this knife. I think you should give the Wegner serious consideration.
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Dennis Bible
I think a lot of people overlook it for a defensive knife because it is marketed as a folding hunter. Don't let that stop you from looking at the Wegner as a defensive knife.
Wegner defensive thread
Here are two extensive threads about the Wegner for defensive use in the Spyderco archive:
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum20/HTML/000170.html
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum20/HTML/001189.html
Tim Wegner himself responds about the
design.
Versatility
This knife is one of the most veratile designs I have seen. It excels as both utilty and defensive knife. Hopefully you would use it for utilty more than defense but if needed for defense it would be an excellent choice.
Ergonomics
The Wegner feels like it becomes an extension of your hand. The blade and handle design work together in such a way that the knife is very comfortable to use. The grip is also very secure.
My choice
The Wegner is my choice for a Spyderco defensive knife. I carry one on duty quite abit. I am very comfortable with this knife. I think you should give the Wegner serious consideration.
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Dennis Bible
Actually I'd take any of the current MBC line up for self-defense over any other SPYDIE knives... JAK's Chinook is really fine for all that defensive stuff and of course my own GUNTING. The Temperance Jr when it arrives will be nifty as well.
Military and Civilian are OK...
Enduras and Delicas work well...
Terzoula Starmate, Lum Tanto...good knives..
Military and Civilian are OK...
Enduras and Delicas work well...
Terzoula Starmate, Lum Tanto...good knives..
Wegner indeed. I didn' t read the links. But the following are attributes for selection:
*Excellent ergonomics. It' s flat/ broad handle shape minimzes rotation while twisting out of medium or while in attempted disarm. It' s dropped handle shape provides for a more natural point. The finger groove, which is a bit large for barehands helps to minimze forward slippage of the fingers/ hand sliding onto the blade while performing thrusting movements.
*The blade has sufficient belly for slashing while its thick spine and tip minimzes possible breakage against hard contact areas(i.e bone). The groove thumb ramp, while not quite agressive enough for a good bite aids to steady the hold for snap cuts.
*The heft from its solid rear spacer allows for effective blunt strikes.
*And the Wegner is rapid to deploy via the wrist flick method.
*And finally, it should be a fixed blade!
L8r,
Nakano
[This message has been edited by Nakano 2 (edited 10-05-2000).]
*Excellent ergonomics. It' s flat/ broad handle shape minimzes rotation while twisting out of medium or while in attempted disarm. It' s dropped handle shape provides for a more natural point. The finger groove, which is a bit large for barehands helps to minimze forward slippage of the fingers/ hand sliding onto the blade while performing thrusting movements.
*The blade has sufficient belly for slashing while its thick spine and tip minimzes possible breakage against hard contact areas(i.e bone). The groove thumb ramp, while not quite agressive enough for a good bite aids to steady the hold for snap cuts.
*The heft from its solid rear spacer allows for effective blunt strikes.
*And the Wegner is rapid to deploy via the wrist flick method.
*And finally, it should be a fixed blade!
L8r,
Nakano
[This message has been edited by Nakano 2 (edited 10-05-2000).]
Owen: actually what we teach LEO and Military is just the opposite and its known in most circles....an edged tool is far more effective within 0-21 feet than any other tool.
As the LEO training videos show constantly is that very fact so that LEO's will not be fooled into thinking that a firearm is the ultimate answer..its only the best under the circumstances that let it.
If self defense is the key, then most of you are correct( even if you don't agree) cause if the particular edged tool FEELS right to you , then its the one to use...
of course the NEW MBC line up is that..MARTIAL BLADE CRAFT designs...designed with Martial artists, LEO and Military in mind... and EXTREME usage....I count the Military, Civilian, Chinook, Temperance Jr, Starmate and GUNTING in that MBC group..even if officially its Chinook, Temperance and Gunting right now!
keep using SPYDERCO knives...all SPYDIES are really cool tools!
By the way, the big guy ( Sal) might see it differently than I do!ROFL!!!!!!
[This message has been edited by BRAM (edited 10-06-2000).]
As the LEO training videos show constantly is that very fact so that LEO's will not be fooled into thinking that a firearm is the ultimate answer..its only the best under the circumstances that let it.
If self defense is the key, then most of you are correct( even if you don't agree) cause if the particular edged tool FEELS right to you , then its the one to use...
of course the NEW MBC line up is that..MARTIAL BLADE CRAFT designs...designed with Martial artists, LEO and Military in mind... and EXTREME usage....I count the Military, Civilian, Chinook, Temperance Jr, Starmate and GUNTING in that MBC group..even if officially its Chinook, Temperance and Gunting right now!
keep using SPYDERCO knives...all SPYDIES are really cool tools!
By the way, the big guy ( Sal) might see it differently than I do!ROFL!!!!!!
[This message has been edited by BRAM (edited 10-06-2000).]
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- Mar 19, 1999
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That's a tough choice. All of them mentioned so far would make me very satisfied. At this time, since we are talking about Spydies, I would have to say the Chinook. It has a nasty looking blade, not in the league of a Civilian, But it will get your attention. Handles well, solid grip, well made, probably the best folder for a back cut(I actually did this to myself when I got it, don't ask because I am still trying ti figure it out myself) and it is one I have been waiting for since I saw it a while back.
This may change when I get the Gunting. This is an intrigueing looking knife. It doen't have an intimidation factor when looking at it. Which, can be useful. There are training blade and a video. I need to save a few more pennies, so I can get the drone and video with the live blade. This very well may be my birthday present to myself.
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Win if can, lose if you must but, always cheat.
This may change when I get the Gunting. This is an intrigueing looking knife. It doen't have an intimidation factor when looking at it. Which, can be useful. There are training blade and a video. I need to save a few more pennies, so I can get the drone and video with the live blade. This very well may be my birthday present to myself.
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Win if can, lose if you must but, always cheat.
Bram, I'm not disputing the effectiveness of a knife. I'm saying that it is too limited to be a "primary" defensive tool. I'm well aware of the statistics and averages. Who is to say that the situation you find yourself in will be statistically correct (did I just coin a new phrase
?)?
As you said referring to a firearm "its only the best under the circumstances that let it." Well, the same is true of a knife. It would be equally foolish to insinuate that a knife is the ultimate answer.
I think that a firearm AND knife complement each other nicely. Having sense enough to avoid trouble and places that trouble are most likely doesn't hurt, either.
Lastly, how many "average" people are able to use the knife or gun effectively under stress anyway? Very few, I would think. Bram, your statements may be very true when referring to people who are trained, but most people (regardless of how well they THINK they can take care of themselves) do not take the time and effort to get training, nor is the normal person very aware of his surroundings.
Perhaps not a popular viewpoint, but a realistic one.
Thought I would throw this in, too. Most of the scenarios that I have seen used in training to show the knife's superiority from the infamous seven-yard-line feature a guy with a knife (already in his hand) charging a guy who is proceeding to draw his (holstered) handgun. Yes, I do realize that the exercise is generally used to show that a gun is not insurance against a knife attack, but if you are indeed defending yourself (knife vs gun) and not attacking, wouldn't it make more sense (for our purposes here) for the knife guy to start with his knife in his pocket, and the offensive party depicted by the gun-toter to already have his gun drawn? Much different results. Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that a knife in the pocket beats a drawn gun (what does?) at 20ft. Contrary to what is apparently popular belief, the person doing the attacking is not the one who is suprised and unprepared. Reality is a guy with a half-drawn knife and a bullet in him. Reality just sucks, but there it is.
Again, I'm not disputing the effectiveness of the knife, but I assume that since we are talking about self-defense here, that we are the attackee. An individual's awareness would play a larger role than his choice of edged weapon.
My apologies for straying off topic.
[This message has been edited by Owen (edited 10-06-2000).]
As you said referring to a firearm "its only the best under the circumstances that let it." Well, the same is true of a knife. It would be equally foolish to insinuate that a knife is the ultimate answer.
I think that a firearm AND knife complement each other nicely. Having sense enough to avoid trouble and places that trouble are most likely doesn't hurt, either.
Lastly, how many "average" people are able to use the knife or gun effectively under stress anyway? Very few, I would think. Bram, your statements may be very true when referring to people who are trained, but most people (regardless of how well they THINK they can take care of themselves) do not take the time and effort to get training, nor is the normal person very aware of his surroundings.
Perhaps not a popular viewpoint, but a realistic one.
Thought I would throw this in, too. Most of the scenarios that I have seen used in training to show the knife's superiority from the infamous seven-yard-line feature a guy with a knife (already in his hand) charging a guy who is proceeding to draw his (holstered) handgun. Yes, I do realize that the exercise is generally used to show that a gun is not insurance against a knife attack, but if you are indeed defending yourself (knife vs gun) and not attacking, wouldn't it make more sense (for our purposes here) for the knife guy to start with his knife in his pocket, and the offensive party depicted by the gun-toter to already have his gun drawn? Much different results. Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that a knife in the pocket beats a drawn gun (what does?) at 20ft. Contrary to what is apparently popular belief, the person doing the attacking is not the one who is suprised and unprepared. Reality is a guy with a half-drawn knife and a bullet in him. Reality just sucks, but there it is.
Again, I'm not disputing the effectiveness of the knife, but I assume that since we are talking about self-defense here, that we are the attackee. An individual's awareness would play a larger role than his choice of edged weapon.
My apologies for straying off topic.
[This message has been edited by Owen (edited 10-06-2000).]
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Dirk,
I have one of Bram's "old" tools,I'm not as good as Bram's boy's or my friends,Vince & Tony but i have his Gunting Vids.took my Escalator trainer & tried it out on a "big" friend of mine,result was "pain"!He didn't have any idea what i did,crap, "I", don't have a good idea what i did!i was just experimenting with a trainer on a 6'5" "good" friend!jim
I have one of Bram's "old" tools,I'm not as good as Bram's boy's or my friends,Vince & Tony but i have his Gunting Vids.took my Escalator trainer & tried it out on a "big" friend of mine,result was "pain"!He didn't have any idea what i did,crap, "I", don't have a good idea what i did!i was just experimenting with a trainer on a 6'5" "good" friend!jim
dogboye
Gold Member
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Originally posted by Nakano 2:
Wegner indeed. I didn' t read the links. But the following are attributes for selection:
...........
*And finally, it should be a fixed blade!
Hmmmm.... any ideas on how to make the folding one into a fixed blade, effectively? Just out of curiosity (maybe
Got me thinkin' hard now.
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iktomi
- Joined
- Dec 25, 1998
- Messages
- 7,394
Originally posted by rockspyder:
Hmmmm.... any ideas on how to make the folding one into a fixed blade, effectively? Just out of curiosity (maybe). I have some concealex that I've been looking for a knife to sheath with it....
Got me thinkin' hard now.
A concealex sheath that carries it in the open position would be pretty cool.
Hopefully a fixed blade version of the Wegner will become reality.
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Dennis Bible
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2000
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- 1,749
Owen, the Civilian has a vid because of its defensive capabilities ie out of the entire (then) range someone chose to make a vid on the Civvie...coincidence, tribute to the knife's capabilities, or guidance for fools who bought it to look cool? Also, there's a big difference between looking fearsome and looking cool - one may ward off an attack and one might incite hours of knife discussion
. Santi is asking which Spyderco to choose for self defence (sorry Bram, I forgot the Gunting
) and you suggest a gun as the best option. I think you just steamrolled over what were relevant and on-topic points.
[This message has been edited by Ferret (edited 10-06-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Ferret (edited 10-06-2000).]