Opinion on different brands that use S35VN/S30V steels

With careful search, you can probably get one Spyderco Paramilitary 2 AND one Kershaw Blur for $180. Both are quality knives that have 3''+ blade in S30V. You can also compare the same steel from different company by yourself.
 
The ZT 0560/0561 are very nice, very well-made knives. But you might want to check the blade geometry, if high-performance cutting is important to you. The blades on these knives are meant more for abuse than fine cutting. I never carry my ZTs, even though I like them, because they are not good slicers; and that's mostly what I'm looking for in an EDC.

Elmax is a great steel, one of my favorites. If it's not the toughest stainless steel out there, it's close. It's probably overkill on a big EDC blade like you get on the 0560.

If the heat treat and hardness are similar, S30V and S35VN will hold an edge better than Elmax (so will M390, which is another awesome stainless steel), with S35VN being a bit tougher than S30V.

In a wilderness survival situation, I'd rather have a fixed blade with me. A tough fixed blade and a folding EDC optimized for slicing would be a good combination. I'd want the fixed blade to have the Elmax (if you want stainless) and the EDC to have S35VN or M390.
 
Agree with all here who recommend the ZT 0550.

Want to spend less than $100 for a S35V? Spyderco's relatively new Native 5 Lightweight. But the blade is only a hair over 3 inches.
 
Twindog said:
The ZT 0560/0561 are very nice, very well-made knives. But you might want to check the blade geometry, if high-performance cutting is important to you. The blades on these knives are meant more for abuse than fine cutting. I never carry my ZTs, even though I like them, because they are not good slicers; and that's mostly what I'm looking for in an EDC.

Elmax is a great steel, one of my favorites. If it's not the toughest stainless steel out there, it's close. It's probably overkill on a big EDC blade like you get on the 0560.

If the heat treat and hardness are similar, S30V and S35VN will hold an edge better than Elmax (so will M390, which is another awesome stainless steel), with S35VN being a bit tougher than S30V.

In a wilderness survival situation, I'd rather have a fixed blade with me. A tough fixed blade and a folding EDC optimized for slicing would be a good combination. I'd want the fixed blade to have the Elmax (if you want stainless) and the EDC to have S35VN or M390.
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So, ZT's dont really have good blade geometry? Thats strange. From where I looked at the blades they looked like they were meant for both cutting and abuse. How do they fare with, say, cutting thick meats/vegetables or whittling dense wood? Just an example. I also find pocket knives to be more versatile than a fixed blade knife, thats just simply my opinion, so can we stick with the pocket knife discussion? Thanks
 
BaconButcher said:
So, ZT's dont really have good blade geometry? Thats strange. From where I looked at the blades they looked like they were meant for both cutting and abuse. How do they fare with, say, cutting thick meats/vegetables or whittling dense wood? Just an example. I also find pocket knives to be more versatile than a fixed blade knife, thats just simply my opinion, so can we stick with the pocket knife discussion? Thanks
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I think for those things the ZT would perform fine. I use my ZTs for food prep on the reg, so while I can't speak to whittling they will definitely handle the other tasks fine.

I have a 566, 550 and 0770 that I carry regularly and they have done everything I've asked just fine... Except for pumpkin carving.
 
BaconButcher said:
So, ZT's dont really have good blade geometry? Thats strange. From where I looked at the blades they looked like they were meant for both cutting and abuse. How do they fare with, say, cutting thick meats/vegetables or whittling dense wood? Just an example. I also find pocket knives to be more versatile than a fixed blade knife, thats just simply my opinion, so can we stick with the pocket knife discussion? Thanks
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ZT’s blade geometry is meant more for hard use, rather than high-performance cutting. You may prefer hard-use geometry, but it won’t cut as well.

That difference is easy to see when I compare my ZT 0560 to my large regular Sebenza. The ZT is a bit larger, but not by much — a 3.75-inch blade vs a 3.5-inch blade.

But the Sebenza is far, far better when it comes to slicing.

Both edges are profiled to 30 degrees inclusive. The edge shoulders on the ZT are 0.041 inches wide, compared to 0.0165 on my Sebenza.

The spine on the ZT is 0.156, compared to 0.124 on my Sebenza.

The spine one-half inch from the tip is 0.1235 on my ZT and 0.0720 on my Sebenza.

The center-blade width one-quarter inch from the edge is 0.730 inches on my ZT and 0.265 on my Sebenza.

The Sebenza’s blade geometry will cut circles around the ZT. The ZT’s Elmax steel will be tougher than the Sebenza’s S30V, and the heavier geometry may make is less likely that you’ll break the ZT blade than the Sebenza.

My only point was to suggest that you add blade geometry to evaluation process. Maybe you’ll prefer the heavier blade. That kind of blade geometry comes with advantages and disadvantages.
 
Twindog said:
ZT’s blade geometry is meant more for hard use, rather than high-performance cutting. You may prefer hard-use geometry, but it won’t cut as well.

That difference is easy to see when I compare my ZT 0560 to my large regular Sebenza. The ZT is a bit larger, but not by much — a 3.75-inch blade vs a 3.5-inch blade.

But the Sebenza is far, far better when it comes to slicing.

Both edges are profiled to 30 degrees inclusive. The edge shoulders on the ZT are 0.041 inches wide, compared to 0.0165 on my Sebenza.

The spine on the ZT is 0.156, compared to 0.124 on my Sebenza.

The spine one-half inch from the tip is 0.1235 on my ZT and 0.0720 on my Sebenza.

The center-blade width one-quarter inch from the edge is 0.730 inches on my ZT and 0.265 on my Sebenza.

The Sebenza’s blade geometry will cut circles around the ZT. The ZT’s Elmax steel will be tougher than the Sebenza’s S30V, and the heavier geometry may make is less likely that you’ll break the ZT blade than the Sebenza.

My only point was to suggest that you add blade geometry to evaluation process. Maybe you’ll prefer the heavier blade. That kind of blade geometry comes with advantages and disadvantages.
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Well then, I am looking to use my pocket knife for heavy duty cutting, as well as food cutting. How is your sebenza for heavy duty cutting, and do you know what steel it is? What cutting knife would you absolutely recommend in your opinion that use S35VN/S30V or Elmax steels for their blades?
But, I am looking at the ZT's, and found two exceptional blades, that utilize two steels, one s35vn and the other elmax. Kinda between a rock and a hard place here, which would you recommend?
Here are the links:
Elmax steel knife: http://kershawguy.com/products-page...h-0566-limited-add-to-cart-for-special-price/
S35VN steel knife: http://kershawguy.com/products-page...lack-blade-new-style-clip-and-lockbar-cutout/
 
In a pocket knife, I'd rather have S35VN than Elmax, just because the bit of extra toughness of Elmax is overkill in a pocket knife and the S35VN will hold an edge a bit better (heat treat held even). But both steels are excellent, and personally I'd put more weight on blade geometry than I would on the differences between two super steels.

The Sebenza can easily be used for hard use. It's an extremely well-made knife and the blade geometry is designed for cutting. ZT also makes knives extremely well, but the company tends to use a much heavier blade geometry that won't cut as well as the Sebenza or as well as other knives that are better designed for slicing.

I really, really like my ZT 0560, but it gets no pocket time anymore because I have other EDCs that are so much better for normal EDC cutting tasks. I was using a Strider SMF out in my garden earlier in the spring, cutting twine, opening seed envelopes, notching stakes, etc. The SMF blade geometry was so cumbersome that I came back into the cabin and swapped it out for a Military in M4 steel. Suddenly, my knife chores were much, much easier and more efficient.

People tend to overlook the benefits of high-performance blade geometry in favor of thick, heavy blades that can sustain massive amounts of damage. Look at Ankerson's results on cutting rope to see how much better high-performance blade geometry can do. He doesn't test systematically for toughness, but he does do a number of tests, such as whittling that puts a lot of lateral stress on the blade and edge.

As a general rule, it's geometry that cuts. Steel supports that geometry by providing both toughness and strength. High-performance steel is wasted on blades with poor cutting geometry.
 
Those Sebenza's are so damn expensive. I want to get a pocket knife with S30V/S35VN/ELMAX steel, but I want a good pocket knife that can handle heavy duty tasks, but retain good cutting ability. No, don't suggest a Sebenza, because that is way out of my price range. I am looking for a knife within the $0-200 range. Its so complicated now.
 
The Benchmade Barage (581) has an incredibly good blade geometry. It's made of M390, which is a super steel with a good mix of toughness and edge holding. I has an assisted opening, but you can deassist it if you want. Spyderco has a lot of knives with good blade geometry, and you can get them in a variety of steels, including Elmax, S30V, S35VN, M390 (or its equivalent) and other super steels. All of these are within your price range.

The ZT 0550 that you're looking at is an excellent knife, and the prices are really low right now because it's being phased out. It won't be a great slicer, but it will be a great knife. The Elmax ZT 0562 G10 is out. It has a "slicer" grind, which isn't really a slicer grind but better than most ZTs.

The hard part isn't finding a knife that meets your needs, the hard part is figuring out just what your needs are. Great times to be looking for a knife.
 
This the 0562 you were talking about? http://www.knifecenter.com/item/ZT0...knife-35-elmax-blade-g10-and-titanium-handles
My knife needs are a mix. I need to be able to cut meats, dress wild game, slice up vegetables and whittling/carving. Cutting doesn't have to be "sushi-chef" perfect, but good enough to get a passing grade. I need a knife that can handle cutting activities good, while I need a stronger/thicker blade to ensure that my blade wont break under most circumstances. The barrage seems nice, but I dont like the way its shaped, and I have had bad experiences with benchmade. Not really familiar with Spyderco, but the blades look strange. I dont really quite understand blade geometry, so can you give me me a crash course?
 
BaconButcher said:
Those Sebenza's are so damn expensive. I want to get a pocket knife with S30V/S35VN/ELMAX steel, but I want a good pocket knife that can handle heavy duty tasks, but retain good cutting ability. No, don't suggest a Sebenza, because that is way out of my price range. I am looking for a knife within the $0-200 range. Its so complicated now.
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Knives are tools. The design will have features for specific tasks. What tasks are you needing a knife to do? Specific answers help more than when people say vague things like hard use.

For example why do you need a super strong knife? What tasks do you need to do that a swiss army knife wouldn't perform? When you get into specifics you can figure out what to buy. Or you can buy to fulfill wants. Both work.

Edited to add I see you replied before I finished posting. Might I suggest a fixed blade for game? You don't want blood in a pivot area harboring bacteria.
 
Fanglekai said:
Knives are tools. The design will have features for specific tasks. What tasks are you needing a knife to do? Specific answers help more than when people say vague things like hard use.

For example why do you need a super strong knife? What tasks do you need to do that a swiss army knife wouldn't perform? When you get into specifics you can figure out what to buy. Or you can buy to fulfill wants. Both work.

Edited to add I see you replied before I finished posting. Might I suggest a fixed blade for game? You don't want blood in a pivot area harboring bacteria.
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I just told you the tasks that I will be using my pocket knife stated not in this comment, but the one before this one. Just look for it, you will find it. I do not really like fixed blades. I find them cumbersome. I enjoy pocket knives, but on another note, I clean and sterilize everything after I dress game, I clean all of my pocketknives extremely well, so rest assured, all of my knives will be bacteria-free. (Any mistakes are due to the autocorrect, I hate it :grumpy:)
 
Yes, that's the 0562 in Elmax that I mentioned. Rick Hinderer makes excellent custom knives, but usually on a low-performance side in terms of cutting. His knives are incredibly well made and strong. The slicer grind on the 0562 is Rick's answer to better slicing performance. The 0562 is ZT's authorized production of Rick's knife.

Almost any well-made knife from Spyderco, Benchmade and ZT will be strong enough for you, unless they have a super pointy point (which can be incredibly useful).

Blade geometry is simple. At the basic level, it means that thin cuts better than thick. The point of high-performance steel is to support the blade's thin geometry with enough toughness (resistance to chipping, cracking and breaking) and strength (resistance to deformation) for the given use of the knife.

In terms of form, you're mostly going to run into one of three blade geometries: sabre grind (all of the ZTs your looking at), full flat grind (Spyderco Military and Paramilitary and many others) and hollow grind (Sebenza). Hollow grinds slice the best, as a general rule (all other things equal, such as blade thickness), but have less steel for strength. In a pocket knife, you will seldom break the blade of a well-made knife. Full flat grinds are next best at slicing. Sabre grinds will usually come in third. They are flat ground, but with an area at the spine left at full spine width before the actual grind starts.
 
Do any ZT's use hollow grind features whatsoever? I will be surprised if the answer is no. Ok, I have re-thought my priorities (Cheesey enough) on what knife I want to get. And I want a simple, standard blade, no funky ones like those that Spyderco makes:
-S35VN/S30V/ELMAX
-Hollow Grind Geometry
-Blade over 3 inches (Preferably over 3.5 inches)
-Under $200
Recommendations welcome.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about the "edge geometry" unless you dedicate your life to cutting paper and cardboard.

I'll tell you what, I work as a General Contractor and my knives go through a lot; cutting silt fence, wires, drywall, concrete bags, scraping paint, digging holes etc. never once in my career have I thought "my knife doesn't slice well enough".

I can tell the difference when cutting cardboard with a ZT versus a Sebenza. The Sebenza wins at that, but it's not enough of a difference to make me want a new knife, especially since my ZT hold an edge longer than my Sebenza.

If you want a knife that will handle anything you throw at it, then get a ZT. Don't fall for all that "slicer" crap:rolleyes:
 
"I wouldn't worry too much about the "edge geometry" unless you dedicate your life to cutting paper and cardboard." = Genius, That made my day.
So, Looking to buy a ZT knife, but What would you recommend? a 0550, 0561, or a 0562? I love the 0561-0562 series, but which? Also, which steel in your opinion is better for general camping/backyard/kitchen use, Elmax or S35VN?
 
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