But is it really substantial? Is it considerably heavier in the hand than a kabar?
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Opinions on Entrek Knives
- Thread starter Packohotdogs
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But is it really substantial? Is it considerably heavier in the hand than a kabar?
t1mpani
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Well, 8/32" stock versus 5/32" stock, full exposed tang versus stick tang, micarta scales versus leather...yeah, it's quite a bit heavier. Are we talking night and day? No, but put a baseball in your hand and try your speed compared to a bare fist. Don't get me wrong, it's a hell of a knife, but I'd much prefer smaller and faster in the extremely unfortunate event that I found myself fighting with a sharp thing, unless it was a sword and I could back up a few feet.
Currently, I don't have a Merc to compare to, but I do have a Silhouette, which is within 1/8" of the blade length, has slightly more full stock-thickness in the upper portion of the blade but is not as big as the Merc through the handle nor quite as wide in the blade, and it's weighing in at 15.8 oz versus 10.1 for my Camillus USMC or 9.9 for the same thing(without the black chemical-impregnated handle) from Kabar. That's slightly more than half-again the weight. Compare to 6.7 oz for the Companion and, for me at least, there's a clear winner.
Currently, I don't have a Merc to compare to, but I do have a Silhouette, which is within 1/8" of the blade length, has slightly more full stock-thickness in the upper portion of the blade but is not as big as the Merc through the handle nor quite as wide in the blade, and it's weighing in at 15.8 oz versus 10.1 for my Camillus USMC or 9.9 for the same thing(without the black chemical-impregnated handle) from Kabar. That's slightly more than half-again the weight. Compare to 6.7 oz for the Companion and, for me at least, there's a clear winner.
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Man now that entreks have been brought up and i took a look i am in love with the bison, What a great bowie design, ive never owned a true bowie before and it looks like it spanks the S@#$ out of the cold steel trail master.
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Umm i feel i must interject, a combat knife IS NOT a fightin knife, its a knife that is tough and rugged enough to make it a veritable multi tool. Its meant to pry apart things and dig and in general do the tpesof jobs that you might find in combat and still have a shape that lends itself to deep penetration or deep slashes, Use as a weapon is of secondary concern to it having great utility.
With that much weight and momentum I'm thinking a dedicated stab or slash from the merc would be a nightmare. It could go through bones and all maybe.
t1mpani
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You're correct, and you'll note in my original answer about the Merc I distinguished the term combat from fighting, but as the specific question was about the knife being too heavy for combat, I guessed that the real question which was being asked was about being able to move the knife at speed. Between primary weapons and gear, we used to lug around about sixty to eighty pounds all the time, and wouldn't have been worried about whether our knife weighed five ounces more in its sheath.
As to the Bison--it's a well put together knife that I like very much, but while I'd readily take one over the San Mai III Trailmaster, the version in SK-5 steel is really a better/tougher alloy for use in such a large blade than 440C is. Ray's heat treat of 440C does a very nice job of maximizing its toughness, but it doesn't change it into a different steel. I'm not saying it's going to break in half--1/4" spine is very strong, but with so much weight and momentum behind it, you're going to see fracture-type edge degradation very quickly compared to a good carbon tool steel, unless you keep the edge at an extremely high angle and sacrifice cutting ability. Guess what I'm saying is, if you just want a huge knife for general duty, it'll be fine. If you want it for the only thing that huge knives are actually good at--hacking stuff--there are better choices. I have the Buffalo and really like it, but a Swamp Rat Camp Tramp eats it for breakfast for actual work, as its 52100 steel can support a thinner cutting geometry while being at least as tough as the 440C at a much thicker bevel.
Nternal, you're right---if it's heavier it hits harder, and for that matter, take in a khukuri and you can go right through the bone. You do have to make contact, though, and as soon as they see your big honkin' knife, they're going to be rather motivated to not hold still. Just sayin'.
I held a Ka-bar tanto (kraton handle) and a ZT 0301 in one hand. Both of those knives combined were slightly lighter than the Merc.
t1mpani
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I don't have an Elk (the handle was too small for me) but I do have a Buffalo, and their blades are so close to each other that you would need to see them side by side to tell the difference. The Elk has a little more belly out front, whereas the Buffalo's point is a tad finer. The scope of work for either would be pretty much identical.
Either is a strong, well made heavy duty fixed blade. They'll easily remove smaller limbs from green trees, split kindling, quarter an animal, etc. Even though they're hollow ground (as are all of Ray's knives) it's one of the better hollow grinds for an outdoors knife as it's not an overly deep bevel, and the convex edge spreads material out well enough to not have the knife bind when doing splitting and similar chores.
Pretty much, it's good at (actually slightly better than) a USMC fighting knife in pretty much all general knife use that you'd ever likely put it to, and suffers from the same curse that haunts all knives in the 7" range: namely, being a jack of all trades and master of none. It's not a scalpel, nor a splinter picker, nor a chef's knife, nor a fillet knife, and it can't skin with the thinner geometries or chop with the big bowies, though it could certainly do a relatively decent job of any of those knives' tasks in a pinch (food doesn't have to be sliced thin to be edible, and if you were lucky enough to find a tomato out in the wild, why on earth bother slicing it?). Combined with a decent compact saw and a SAK or multi-tool, there's very little you couldn't do. Actually, with a decent saw and SAK or multi-tool, the Elk would be a tad superfluous, though there are a few tasks that it'd be nicer to have it around for.
It's a neat knife, well made and simultaneously both modern and classic, so if you like it, jump on it. Even though they don't have an ENORMOUS following on these boards, I also notice that Entreks in general don't seem to hang around the sale area very long, so if you're disappointed after some use you could always get rid of it, and if you're disappointed before the use--right when you open the box--return it!
Either is a strong, well made heavy duty fixed blade. They'll easily remove smaller limbs from green trees, split kindling, quarter an animal, etc. Even though they're hollow ground (as are all of Ray's knives) it's one of the better hollow grinds for an outdoors knife as it's not an overly deep bevel, and the convex edge spreads material out well enough to not have the knife bind when doing splitting and similar chores.
Pretty much, it's good at (actually slightly better than) a USMC fighting knife in pretty much all general knife use that you'd ever likely put it to, and suffers from the same curse that haunts all knives in the 7" range: namely, being a jack of all trades and master of none. It's not a scalpel, nor a splinter picker, nor a chef's knife, nor a fillet knife, and it can't skin with the thinner geometries or chop with the big bowies, though it could certainly do a relatively decent job of any of those knives' tasks in a pinch (food doesn't have to be sliced thin to be edible, and if you were lucky enough to find a tomato out in the wild, why on earth bother slicing it?). Combined with a decent compact saw and a SAK or multi-tool, there's very little you couldn't do. Actually, with a decent saw and SAK or multi-tool, the Elk would be a tad superfluous, though there are a few tasks that it'd be nicer to have it around for.
It's a neat knife, well made and simultaneously both modern and classic, so if you like it, jump on it. Even though they don't have an ENORMOUS following on these boards, I also notice that Entreks in general don't seem to hang around the sale area very long, so if you're disappointed after some use you could always get rid of it, and if you're disappointed before the use--right when you open the box--return it!
I don't have an Elk (the handle was too small for me) but I do have a Buffalo, and their blades are so close to each other that you would need to see them side by side to tell the difference. The Elk has a little more belly out front, whereas the Buffalo's point is a tad finer. The scope of work for either would be pretty much identical.
Either is a strong, well made heavy duty fixed blade. They'll easily remove smaller limbs from green trees, split kindling, quarter an animal, etc. Even though they're hollow ground (as are all of Ray's knives) it's one of the better hollow grinds for an outdoors knife as it's not an overly deep bevel, and the convex edge spreads material out well enough to not have the knife bind when doing splitting and similar chores.
Pretty much, it's good at (actually slightly better than) a USMC fighting knife in pretty much all general knife use that you'd ever likely put it to, and suffers from the same curse that haunts all knives in the 7" range: namely, being a jack of all trades and master of none. It's not a scalpel, nor a splinter picker, nor a chef's knife, nor a fillet knife, and it can't skin with the thinner geometries or chop with the big bowies, though it could certainly do a relatively decent job of any of those knives' tasks in a pinch (food doesn't have to be sliced thin to be edible, and if you were lucky enough to find a tomato out in the wild, why on earth bother slicing it?). Combined with a decent compact saw and a SAK or multi-tool, there's very little you couldn't do. Actually, with a decent saw and SAK or multi-tool, the Elk would be a tad superfluous, though there are a few tasks that it'd be nicer to have it around for.
It's a neat knife, well made and simultaneously both modern and classic, so if you like it, jump on it. Even though they don't have an ENORMOUS following on these boards, I also notice that Entreks in general don't seem to hang around the sale area very long, so if you're disappointed after some use you could always get rid of it, and if you're disappointed before the use--right when you open the box--return it!
Thank you for that reply and helpful information. Here in the UK it is not easy to get Entreks so as soon as I can afford it I will pull the trigger.
t1mpani
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Spent all that time last night digging through my drawers for a British coin and then forgot to post! Anyway, I couldn't find a pound, but I did find a twenty pence piece, so here are a couple of pictures showing the handles of a Buffalo, Silhouette, and Companion (left to right) next to a twenty pence piece and then also next to a US quarter. I have two of (almost) every knife I really like, one to beat up and one to keep minty in backup, so here are the glorious minty ones! I'm posting this just so you have an idea for the size of handles Ray goes for---namely, smaller than most people expect. I've always found this a tad odd, because I've met Ray and didn't notice that he had particularly small hands, but for whatever reason he runs towards the compact. It's not the thickness I'm referring to but the height from top to bottom. Just didn't want you to be surprised when the knife shows up if you go through the trouble of getting one to your door, especially if you happen to have meaty hands.
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I think if someone finds the Fallkniven handles comfortable they wouldnt be bothered by the Entrek ones. The ones I own remind me of the F1 in terms of size.
If you like the size of the RAT/ESEE knives then they might feel too small for you. I find those knives too bulky for me.
t1mpani
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Yes, good comparison. For me, ESEE/Busse/Fehrman is "right" and I've re-handled all my Fallknivens, so it's just a matter of hand size and personal preference.
One more question, I note the comments about fighting knives as opposed to survival type knives which are much more versatile, and whilst I am not by any means a fighter, I just wonder is the Elk pointy enough to be useful if needed for defence as a last resort?
t1mpani
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I'm just all over this thread! 
Well, as one who--through a very unfortunate sequence of events involving a worn out step ladder with a weak step and a high set of shelves I was installing--ended up with one end of a steel shelf bracket buried about two inches deep between a couple of ribs (which it went between after breaking one of them), I wouldn't have any doubt about my ability to drive almost any knife with an actual point into just about any soft target. Mental barriers would likely be harder to overcome than physical ones.
Here's the exact dangerous instrument I speak of. Fearsome, ain't it? Eight years out, it still haunts my dreams
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
Well, as one who--through a very unfortunate sequence of events involving a worn out step ladder with a weak step and a high set of shelves I was installing--ended up with one end of a steel shelf bracket buried about two inches deep between a couple of ribs (which it went between after breaking one of them), I wouldn't have any doubt about my ability to drive almost any knife with an actual point into just about any soft target. Mental barriers would likely be harder to overcome than physical ones.
Here's the exact dangerous instrument I speak of. Fearsome, ain't it? Eight years out, it still haunts my dreams
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
It seems pointy enough and with the weight and leverage of the 1/4" thick 7" blade it would demolish somebody I'm sure. Heres a video of Ray showing some of his knives including the elk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJzJURMv3BA