-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Opinions on serrations?
- Thread starter BigRott
- Start date
A hawser like phil memtioned is as big or bigger than your arm . They're not manilla any more but a bitch to cut. Manilla we cut with a hacksaw is over an inch. It's used in places where it becomes disposable and is cheap like paper mills where they pull big balls of wire out if a pit with a winch and in the course of a week cut a lot of rope that gets tossed with the wire. The tape and hacksaw hanging there on the wall is the easiest way. And hasn't been improved upon.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2000
- Messages
- 58
I have a SwissTool and use the serrated blade 50X as often as my plain blade. I open and cut up a lot of boxes & I guess I just gravitated towords the serrated because it works better for me. I was very suprised at the opinions I read on this thread. Not that they are wrong, just different than I would have guessed.
------------------
"Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Matt. 10:16
------------------
"Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Matt. 10:16
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2000
- Messages
- 24
Serrations are fantastic on a bread knife.
[This message has been edited by justcurious (edited 03-19-2000).]
[This message has been edited by justcurious (edited 03-19-2000).]
I've basically just lost interest in serrations. They often get in the way more than they help on my partially serrated blades. For PS blades, I like to see the serrated portion much less than 50%
The one place in the past 4 years that I found them really useful was when I was working on some plastic water tubing under someone's house trailer. The serrated blade on my Leatherman Supertool zipped right through that stuff. So under the right circumstance they can be very useful but in general, for everyday carry, I can live without them.
------------------
Hoodoo
The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stonethe light-pressd blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.
Walt Whitman
The one place in the past 4 years that I found them really useful was when I was working on some plastic water tubing under someone's house trailer. The serrated blade on my Leatherman Supertool zipped right through that stuff. So under the right circumstance they can be very useful but in general, for everyday carry, I can live without them.
------------------
Hoodoo
The low, hoarse purr of the whirling stonethe light-pressd blade,
Diffusing, dropping, sideways-darting, in tiny showers of gold,
Sparkles from the wheel.
Walt Whitman
- Joined
- May 26, 1999
- Messages
- 1,964
I worship Spyderco, but I don't tow the party line anymore regarding serrations.
Serrations are good for cutting materials that are very hard or very soft. With hard things, like wood or PVC pipe, the serrations can be used like a saw. With soft things, like cheese and tomatoes, serrations work well because the edge can be totally submerged and pulled through the material. Serrations are fantastic for a material that is both hard and soft. For instance; bread is often hard on the outside and soft in the middle, which is why bread knives are often serrated.
The big, shocking revelation about serrated knives is: Serrations are not better at cutting rope! Actually, I guess that's not much of a revelation, since people here have already mentioned it, but I thought for a long time that everyone pretty much agreed serrations were better for rope.
Serrations do cut rope well, but why is this? Is the serration pattern of the edge actually helpful? I don't think so. Serrations are usually chisel ground and chisel ground edges are usually very thin. When knifemakers enter a knife into a rope cutting competetion, they put a very thin edge on the knife. For rope cutting, the thinner the better, and serrated knives have a thin edge.
Serrations on modern utility knives are a fad. It's a marketing gimmick that became popular in the mid '80s along with the tanto point. There are few historical examples of serrated utility knives or American tanto knives, probably because these features are not very useful. Additionally, there are a lot of magic tricks and slogans that accompany these gimmicks, but you've got to try to look at them objectively.
------------------
Cerulean
"Just because some folks think you make great kydex sheaths doesn't make you into some sort of mind reading psychologist." -Paracelsus
Serrations are good for cutting materials that are very hard or very soft. With hard things, like wood or PVC pipe, the serrations can be used like a saw. With soft things, like cheese and tomatoes, serrations work well because the edge can be totally submerged and pulled through the material. Serrations are fantastic for a material that is both hard and soft. For instance; bread is often hard on the outside and soft in the middle, which is why bread knives are often serrated.
The big, shocking revelation about serrated knives is: Serrations are not better at cutting rope! Actually, I guess that's not much of a revelation, since people here have already mentioned it, but I thought for a long time that everyone pretty much agreed serrations were better for rope.
Serrations do cut rope well, but why is this? Is the serration pattern of the edge actually helpful? I don't think so. Serrations are usually chisel ground and chisel ground edges are usually very thin. When knifemakers enter a knife into a rope cutting competetion, they put a very thin edge on the knife. For rope cutting, the thinner the better, and serrated knives have a thin edge.
Serrations on modern utility knives are a fad. It's a marketing gimmick that became popular in the mid '80s along with the tanto point. There are few historical examples of serrated utility knives or American tanto knives, probably because these features are not very useful. Additionally, there are a lot of magic tricks and slogans that accompany these gimmicks, but you've got to try to look at them objectively.
------------------
Cerulean
"Just because some folks think you make great kydex sheaths doesn't make you into some sort of mind reading psychologist." -Paracelsus
I agree with with the topic originators views 100%! I dislike serrations unless there is a specific task they excell at. In my case it's cutting nylon locking straps. Side cutters would be the real tool of chice, but I use a 4" CS Voyager. I really like the small serrations!
For the record, they are easilt sharpened using a Spyderco triangular file. I use a 10X loupe to make sure I am on the right angle, and go at it. There are allot of cuts to sharpen, but it goes really fast!
For the record, they are easilt sharpened using a Spyderco triangular file. I use a 10X loupe to make sure I am on the right angle, and go at it. There are allot of cuts to sharpen, but it goes really fast!
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
Thanks for the details Tom, the biggest rope I have cut was rigging about 4" across. My knife handled that with no problem, but I will keep the hacksaw idea in mind the next time I get a hold of some think rope.
-Cliff
-Cliff
Cliff it's probably a fact that there is a knife for just about every job we can think of but for the heavy rope the thing that made a saw the tool of choice is probably that it's done while working. And work is work. Most people naturally look for the easiesy way.
I guess laziness kept me from using a knife because it meant that i'd have to work harder cutting it stop and sharpen a knife more often and that's work too. Siting home sharpening a knife is enjoyable and somewhat relaxing but stopping during the work day to do the same thing was just more work.
Thinking about it that's the only reason i can come up with for why a knife nut like me opted not to use a knife.
I guess laziness kept me from using a knife because it meant that i'd have to work harder cutting it stop and sharpen a knife more often and that's work too. Siting home sharpening a knife is enjoyable and somewhat relaxing but stopping during the work day to do the same thing was just more work.
Thinking about it that's the only reason i can come up with for why a knife nut like me opted not to use a knife.
Serrations in and of themselves are not a fad, thought they are used as a marketing gimmick currently. Serrations have been around since we first started schipping sharp things out of flint, and the only reason they were not more common on metal blades is the sharpening issue.
That said, I do not carry a serrated blade. I prefer a sharp straight edge. A serrated blade will go through just about anything quicker than an equally sharpened straight edge, but it will generally be messier. If my only desire in life is to seperate one half of something from another half, then serrations are the way to go.
The downsides to serrations are the afore mentioned sharpening woes, and the messiness with which they accomplish their tasks. A well sharpened straight edge will leave you with to cleanly seperated objects, serrations will leave you with sawdust or tears.
Serrations are usefull, but not the end all of sharp things. Woodworkers will always need both chisels and saws, and would willingly give up neither, and we as general knifemakers should remember that, and carry the proper tool for our task, or a decent alternative.
Stryver
That said, I do not carry a serrated blade. I prefer a sharp straight edge. A serrated blade will go through just about anything quicker than an equally sharpened straight edge, but it will generally be messier. If my only desire in life is to seperate one half of something from another half, then serrations are the way to go.
The downsides to serrations are the afore mentioned sharpening woes, and the messiness with which they accomplish their tasks. A well sharpened straight edge will leave you with to cleanly seperated objects, serrations will leave you with sawdust or tears.
Serrations are usefull, but not the end all of sharp things. Woodworkers will always need both chisels and saws, and would willingly give up neither, and we as general knifemakers should remember that, and carry the proper tool for our task, or a decent alternative.
Stryver
Love them, love them, love them.
My first experience of being consciencly aware of how good they are was this:
I was working in a kitchen, slicing melons, and my arm got really sore at the end of the day. The next I used serrations, and not only was I not sore, I got the work done much faster. I also did a little landscaping, and for that, serrations are almost indispensible. (I used a cheap Spyderco rescue copycat).
If you're going to buy a cheap knife, with softer steel "ie generic stainless" serrations actually cause the knife to have a much longer life.
And they are absolutly necessary for cutting thin slices of food.
My very best example of serrations:
My dad had a ice cream cake for his birthday, and my mom had just taken it out of the deep freeze (like 0-5 Ferenheit). We whipped the Cold Steel large kitchen knife, and low and behold, we had cut the thing up very easily in no time. And this is without dipping the thing in water hot or cold! I was even surprised how easily the knife went through the cake.
Ed
------------------
One small step for man, One giant leap for frogs, One mile for fleas.
It's all about perspective.
My first experience of being consciencly aware of how good they are was this:
I was working in a kitchen, slicing melons, and my arm got really sore at the end of the day. The next I used serrations, and not only was I not sore, I got the work done much faster. I also did a little landscaping, and for that, serrations are almost indispensible. (I used a cheap Spyderco rescue copycat).
If you're going to buy a cheap knife, with softer steel "ie generic stainless" serrations actually cause the knife to have a much longer life.
And they are absolutly necessary for cutting thin slices of food.
My very best example of serrations:
My dad had a ice cream cake for his birthday, and my mom had just taken it out of the deep freeze (like 0-5 Ferenheit). We whipped the Cold Steel large kitchen knife, and low and behold, we had cut the thing up very easily in no time. And this is without dipping the thing in water hot or cold! I was even surprised how easily the knife went through the cake.
Ed
------------------
One small step for man, One giant leap for frogs, One mile for fleas.
It's all about perspective.
I could have edited the last message, but this is a different topic w/i the same subject. I don't think 1/2 serrated blades do justice to serrations. Yeah it sounds silly, but if you actually need serrations 1/2 of the time, I'd get a fully serrated knife, because when you're cutting with serrations, you usually need to put more power into cutting, therefore, you have to have the serrations and the far end of the knife, so you can get more leverage.
------------------
One small step for man, One giant leap for frogs, One mile for fleas.
It's all about perspective.
------------------
One small step for man, One giant leap for frogs, One mile for fleas.
It's all about perspective.
I agree serations make a real mess out of your arm and face when you try to shave with them too !
I'll stick to a straight blade..don't have a lot of use for the Tanto point either - but I do love Spydercos.. Un toothed versions.
------------------
knife Knuts are sharp people
Jonesy!
I'll stick to a straight blade..don't have a lot of use for the Tanto point either - but I do love Spydercos.. Un toothed versions.
------------------
knife Knuts are sharp people
Jonesy!
Edrozen has a good point not just for serrations but the plain edge too.
If you need one or the other you're short changed by a half blade. A good dual blade knife with a plain and serrated would handle just about any work that you could throw at it.
Another good thing would be that is you dulled the plain blade you would always have the serrated to fall back on.
If you need one or the other you're short changed by a half blade. A good dual blade knife with a plain and serrated would handle just about any work that you could throw at it.
Another good thing would be that is you dulled the plain blade you would always have the serrated to fall back on.
I am surprised that no one has mentioned the biggest drawback to serrations-once the edge goes - no matter which sharpening system one uses, the edge will never regain its original sharpness. i personally use Spyderco kitchen blades. Once they have been resharpened ( by the way, I do not follow the Sharpmaster directions. I only run the scallooed edge along the stone until i HAVE A BURR ON THE PLAIN SIDE. This edge I then run flat against a stone.) Once the blade has reached the point of becoming almost flat, I throw it out and buy a new one. They are cheap enough. I would nevere think of buying an expensive knife with a serrated edge.
The only advantages a serrated edge has are cutting ability on a few unique materials, and the ability to hold its original edge substantially longer than a straight blader.
The only advantages a serrated edge has are cutting ability on a few unique materials, and the ability to hold its original edge substantially longer than a straight blader.
