Opinions on the Tolk?

For full disclosure, I had a Tolk and sold it because I needed some quick cash. IMO, it's a really great knife that I wouldn't hesitate to buy again for the long term. The quality is right there with CRK's and other $400-500 knives. The ergonomics are great, it's very visually appealing (again IMHO), and Brad has taken the time to engineer many small details that enhance the usability and refinement of the knife. The only minor negatives I can think of are 1) it is a larger knife, like an Umnumzaan or Spyderco Military, so may not be appropriate for all environments, and 2) the sandblasted Ti surface shows snail trails and minor wear as easily or more so than the typical CRK. I don't know if Brad offers refurbishment of these Performance Series knives yet like CRK, but if he does, that would reduce the second negative significantly. I'd would actually prefer a stonewashed Ti finish like the ZT 450 or CRK Ti-Lock, but that's a maker's decision.

Bottom line, for an EDC large Ti-framelock, the Tolk is outstanding. I might not put it in the "highly collectible" category, but if want a excellent quality knife that you plan on using for it's intended purpose (carrying around and cutting stuff) you won't be disappointed.

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I have come to the conclusion that any knife over $250 is just not worth it for me. I have two CRK knives one a small Sebenza 21 I bought at the pawn shop for $200 which was a great deal and an Umnumzaan I bought new for $425, a Strider SMF that was $400 and a Brous Strife that was $500. All of these are exceptional knives but IMO I am just as happy with my Kershaw Elmax Blur , PM2, BM Griptillian and so on with these being around the $100 price point. I also love slip joints and can buy really nice ones like GEC, Case, Canal Street and such for $150 or less. I bought my blackwashed, Elmax ZT 560 for $240 and I am extremely happy with it. For a while I thought I needed to buy knives that were all the rage here on Blade Forums but finally realized that bragging rights for me just did not justify the expense of some knives. I am not saying I will never buy another expensive knife but if I do it will have to be something that has a feature, design or something that really stands out to me that I cannot get on any other knife for less not that it is a particular brand or maker. I know that many of you will disagree with me and that's fine too because I also believe that every knife person out there should buy, collect, trade and sell what makes them happy.
 
Ajack60 said:
I have an AVO and CRK's, although the AVO is a great knife, it still does not surpass the CRK's.
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x2 I would take a CRK any day over an AVO. My AVO was sent in for up/down blade play and when I got it back it still had the same up/down blade play. He told me that is normal because his tolerances were off on the knife. Not acceptable IMO.
 
Kyle_4 said:
x2 I would take a CRK any day over an AVO. My AVO was sent in for up/down blade play and when I got it back it still had the same up/down blade play. He told me that is normal because his tolerances were off on the knife. Not acceptable IMO.
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That's interesting. You'd think he'd want to fix it instead of leaving a customer unsatisfied?? Oh well.
 
x2 I would take a CRK any day over an AVO. My AVO was sent in for up/down blade play and when I got it back it still had the same up/down blade play. He told me that is normal because his tolerances were off on the knife. Not acceptable IMO.
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Wow. That is disturbing. I am sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with his service. It is definitely not a tolerance level acceptable for a $500 piece, at least as a customer, when the person would know that $200 production knives can do a lot better.

After I received a prompt reply from Brad regarding my question on Tolk, I thought that it is a reflection of his eagerness to customer satisfaction. That was very assuring. I will see what my experience with his shop will be.


Miso
 
Most of the OP's issues seem to be aesthetic, and could apply to any mid-tech. I love CRK's fit/finish but ding them big time on the soft blade steel choice. The same sharpening issue could be applied to CRK's thumb studs as well, and now that CRK has gone away from a bushing pivot which IMO is a downgrade. I also feel CRK's handles are not really very ergonomic, ala the big fin on the lock bar on the umnumzaan. The one thing that CRK has going for them is amazing tolerances/consistency and their hydraulic like opening, and honestly that's about it. My CRKs have not had much pocket time lately because they just dull much quicker than other super steel folders I have, that require no real extra effort to touch up the edge but go much longer between touch ups.

I had an AVO and a Tolk, I got rid of the AVO. Long story short I don't think they are worth $475, however I don't think most mid-tech's are, yet they are all the rage now and prices keep going up. When you can get super steel, very high tolerance production knives under $300, you pay the extra money either for the exclusivity or because you really like the design. CTS-XHP is nothing special in the steel department, but that's nothing new, there are tons of mid-techs in the same price range using average at best steels, ala CRK, etc.

For me both the AVO and Tolk are a bit off dimension wise. I liked the blade length on the AVO, but the handle was way too short/small. The Tolk is just the opposite it's a really nice size handle, but the blade borders on too long. Fit and finish on the Tolk is great, no blade play, solid lock up, centering etc. That should go without saying at this price, but frankly QC isn't that impressive in the mid-tech market as far as I'm concerned, no better than good production knives. Blade steel is nothing special, but I like the blade shape, it's a great slicer, but it isn't a beefy blade for abuse, but the CTS-XHP should provide good edge holding, and durability in a thinner blade. It has a strong lock bar and blade retention, and the lock bar tension is perfectly set so you can use the flipper effectively and still use the thumb studs, getting that balance right is very rare. The thumb ramp to me is more for looks, the jimping is aggressive which is a plus, but because of the handle design unless you have very long fingers if you slide your thumb up far enough to be on the jimping your index finger is going to be on the blade. I'd have rather seen like 1/2" of blade jimping leading into some jimping on the first 1/2" of the handle. It's surprisingly light and well balanced, it's nice and thin with good grip. It's one of those knives that to me looks a bit "awkward" in that you don't think is going to feel right, but once you have it in your hand it all comes together nearly perfectly.

So overall I'd say it's one of the better mid-techs I've owned, not sure if I'll keep it or not. I haven't seemed to learn my lesson yet, I've owned a lot of popular mid-tech brands and been disappointed more often than not in the fit/finish department and I'm more of a functional guy and there's just too many great production knives at half the price with just as good or better blade steel. So far out of a couple dozen the only ones that really have impressed me have been CRK and Les George in the fit/finish department, and even those I have nit pics about, but the Tolk is right there with them, my AVO was not quite as good.
 
miso2 said:
Wow. That is disturbing. I am sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with his service. It is definitely not a tolerance level acceptable for a $500 piece, at least as a customer, when the person would know that $200 production knives can do a lot better.

After I received a prompt reply from Brad regarding my question on Tolk, I thought that it is a reflection of his eagerness to customer satisfaction. That was very assuring. I will see what my experience with his shop will be.


Miso
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I have a really hard time believing this person.
 
brancron said:
I have a really hard time believing this person.
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brancron,

I am curious to know why you are having a hard time accepting what I mentioned above. Do you think that Brad is not that kind of a person to send an e-mail to his customer himself? Or, were you referring to something else?


Miso
 
miso2 said:
brancron,

I am curious to know why you are having a hard time accepting what I mentioned above. Do you think that Brad is not that kind of a person to send an e-mail to his customer himself? Or, were you referring to something else?


Miso
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Sorry for the confusion, I was referring to what Kyle_4 said, which you quoted, not what you said.
 
jx2 said:
@ToddM- very helpful post. Thank you.
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I concur.

However, it was bit surprising that you feel QC of midtechs is not better than that of big production companies. I thought it would be the opposite, as midtechs make small batches and charge a lot more for, I guess, better quality if not on par with custom. If they don't deliver it, what is the point...... Again, I have to see what my Tolk will feel like in my hand and what my experience with Southard will be. But, thanks for your insight.


Miso
 
Your point is well taken, and everyone decides what's important to them in a knife for their $. My post might come off as a critical, and there are mid-tech's that are head and shoulders above high end production knives (say $200-$300). FWIW I consider the Tolk to be one of the better mid-tech's I've owned. In the past 4-5 years I've probably gone through 25-30 mid-tech's. I realize that's a relatively small sample size, but all were very popular designs. There were still examples with poor blade retention, lock rock, uneven grinds, poorly sharpened, poor detents, pivots that were not that super smooth, etc. Out of all of them I probably still only have 5-6, and really only 2-3 that I'd be reluctant to part with if someone offered me what I had in them.

I'm a function over form knife person, so I'm very critical of paying twice as much $ for a knife and not getting a significant improvement in blade steel, fit, finish etc. I realize all things have diminishing returns as you get to the upper end, but a $500 knife should be noticeably better in materials and/or fit/finish than a $250 knife, period. I honestly think knives are becoming more of a fashion accessory for many buyers. It seems many of the choices in design and materials we see in mid-techs is motivated as much or more by profit margins than being the best materials for the job. Case in point, we still see many mid-techs using average steels and few if any lock types aside the production efficient/license free liner/frame lock. It's not that average steel is bad, but you wouldn't want to pay $70K for a corvette that had just average handling, or average acceleration or all you are paying for is the body style and the name/exclusivity. Yet in the high end knife world many buyers seem to do just that.

I also like to know how much the maker is really involved, if they just farming out production, assembly, QC etc. then all you are paying for is name, design, and exclusivity. That's not to say the end product can not still have amazing fit/finish/QC etc. but it's something I consider. At that point you have to ask how much different is it compared to a designer who works with BM/Spyderco/ZT etc. to produce their design. Obviously you can't reasonably expect a lot of hands on work by the maker or it would be a custom.

You also can't blame them, people are practically fighting just to get on wait lists for these mid-techs. The market is foaming at the mouth for $500-$750 mid-tech knives. Heck we have makers selling annual subscriptions to users who want to get an advantage in obtaining their knives. With that kind of demand I can see why prices are high and only going up.
 
ToddM said:
Your point is well taken, and everyone decides what's important to them in a knife for their $. My post might come off as a critical, and there are mid-tech's that are head and shoulders above high end production knives (say $200-$300). FWIW I consider the Tolk to be one of the better mid-tech's I've owned. In the past 4-5 years I've probably gone through 25-30 mid-tech's. I realize that's a relatively small sample size, but all were very popular designs. There were still examples with poor blade retention, lock rock, uneven grinds, poorly sharpened, poor detents, pivots that were not that super smooth, etc. Out of all of them I probably still only have 5-6, and really only 2-3 that I'd be reluctant to part with if someone offered me what I had in them.

I'm a function over form knife person, so I'm very critical of paying twice as much $ for a knife and not getting a significant improvement in blade steel, fit, finish etc. I realize all things have diminishing returns as you get to the upper end, but a $500 knife should be noticeably better in materials and/or fit/finish than a $250 knife, period. I honestly think knives are becoming more of a fashion accessory for many buyers. It seems many of the choices in design and materials we see in mid-techs is motivated as much or more by profit margins than being the best materials for the job. Case in point, we still see many mid-techs using average steels and few if any lock types aside the production efficient/license free liner/frame lock. It's not that average steel is bad, but you wouldn't want to pay $70K for a corvette that had just average handling, or average acceleration or all you are paying for is the body style and the name/exclusivity. Yet in the high end knife world many buyers seem to do just that.

I also like to know how much the maker is really involved, if they just farming out production, assembly, QC etc. then all you are paying for is name, design, and exclusivity. That's not to say the end product can not still have amazing fit/finish/QC etc. but it's something I consider. At that point you have to ask how much different is it compared to a designer who works with BM/Spyderco/ZT etc. to produce their design. Obviously you can't reasonably expect a lot of hands on work by the maker or it would be a custom.

You also can't blame them, people are practically fighting just to get on wait lists for these mid-techs. The market is foaming at the mouth for $500-$750 mid-tech knives. Heck we have makers selling annual subscriptions to users who want to get an advantage in obtaining their knives. With that kind of demand I can see why prices are high and only going up.
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Awesome points. I agree with them completely. Most excellent writing as well.

If you don't mind me asking, what are the 2-3 midtechs you'd be hesitant to sell? I may want to look into them, and they may be something I've never heard of.
 
Tank you Todd - those are some interesting insights that are probably very close to the reality.

But I would be also curios about those 2-3 preferred mid-techs of yours :)
 
Currently I'd say those 3 are:

A CRK, George VECP, and the Tolk (for now). I'd also like to try one of they Olamic's but I'm waiting for the 3.5" option.

However, those choices also reflect user bias, and compromises I've accepted, and others that were sold that had nothing wrong with them just didn't fit my needs, grip, etc.

The CRKs are just amazing in fit/finish/tolerances, I love the hydraulic opening feel, but admittedly I'm not impressed with the blade steel and I think the ergonomics could be better. It stays just because I enjoy opening and closing it so much. If CRK offered a super steel, and cleaned up a couple ergonomic issues they would be by far the best overall package mid-tech I've handled so far.

The George VECP also is not a super steel, but everything else is top notch, ergonomics are great, super smooth and nearly CRK hydraulic feel, if I made adjustments to it they would be to use a jimping pattern that was functional not just for looks, and put a little less belly in the blade. I'd also bead blasted the handle for more grip. The Talos has a better blade shape for me, but the handle had zero grip, and I didn't like the sharp point at the back of the handle, but fit/finish was top notch but over the years I've gotten tired of modifying knives to get them where I want. If I ran across a deal on the frag pattern I might buy one again.

The Tolk the quality and feel are great, again it's not a super steel, but the blade is long/thin so having a more durable steel probably adds some durability to the thinner blade, that said I'd still rather it have M390, cts-204p, cts-20cp, s90v etc.

Honestly my EDC more days than not now is just a boring a PM2 in 204p
 
Thanks again Todd. While my experience with CRK is too short to comment on the steel, I would agree with the rest. The Tolk is still in post - I am really curios!
 
Todd: Your objective analysis and presentation are among the best and most useful I've read in the general knife forum. Thank you.
 
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