Opinions on this knife..

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My humble advice would be to maybe scrap the 50 knife goal and shrink it down to say 5. Like it was pointed out above you design will most likely change some. I have been learning to make knives for about a year and I have about a hundred or so blades under my belt.Not all of those "Knives" were really knives at all but just hunks of overheated steel with blocks of micarta on the end. But I found when I slowed down and not try and build Rome in a day things just worked out better.

The knife design of today sometimes is not so nice 10 or 15 knives later. But keep posting as you go and I am sure some folks will help you along and good luck.
 
Without sounding like too much of an ass, I'll try to be straight with you Maker X. Some of the guys are trying to be encouraging here without being too harsh, but your plan needs a bit of a wake up call.

You admit to being less than stellar at grinding bevels, yet you want to do a run of fifty knives and sell them for a profit. Practice makes perfect, and knife #50 will most likely be better than knife #3........so are you going to charge the same amount for both knives?

You're kind of all over the map, forging the edge? Stock removal for the bevels, and RC of 60 "ish" on the edge with an RC of 30 "ish" on the spine? "I think the edge is better when forged".... You need to get bit more research under your belt before you go cranking out a run of fifty blades to sell to the knife buying public. Knife buyers are pretty well informed, especially considering how passionate they are about their favorite hobby. You have an obligation to know as much as you can about your product before offering it to them.

You may be a very competent toolmaker/machinist, but please think about how long it took you to become proficient at that craft. Don't assume that you will be a proficient knife maker overnight. Most makers here on this forum have taken a considerable amount of time working at this craft and most would readily admit they have a long way to go towards achieving perfection.

My advice to you would be to slow down, make a few blades, see how they turn out, use them extensively, make adjustments, and then maybe think about doing a run of knives for the public. I apologize if I sound a bit negative, but it seems to me that you have quite a bit more homework to do before making fifty of those.

Best of luck.
 
MakerX said:
I am using a rockwell machine. The only way to accurate way to determine hardness that I know of. I am hot forging the edge with a large hammer. My understanding on forging is it aligns the grain changing the internal structure of the steel. I would like to see the research that it does not effect anything. I maybe just wasting my time and I could skip a step if it dont effect anything. I am just not sure of that.
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Whew! For a moment there I was afraid you were going to start talking about edge packing.

So, if I understand you correctly, you are doing stock removal for the most part, but then forging in a bevel, and then finishing the bevel by grinding?
 
jonnymac44 said:
Without sounding like too much of an ass, I'll try to be straight with you Maker X. Some of the guys are trying to be encouraging here without being too harsh, but your plan needs a bit of a wake up call.

You admit to being less than stellar at grinding bevels, yet you want to do a run of fifty knives and sell them for a profit. Practice makes perfect, and knife #50 will most likely be better than knife #3........so are you going to charge the same amount for both knives?

You're kind of all over the map, forging the edge? Stock removal for the bevels, and RC of 60 "ish" on the edge with an RC of 30 "ish" on the spine? "I think the edge is better when forged".... You need to get bit more research under your belt before you go cranking out a run of fifty blades to sell to the knife buying public. Knife buyers are pretty well informed, especially considering how passionate they are about their favorite hobby. You have an obligation to know as much as you can about your product before offering it to them.

You may be a very competent toolmaker/machinist, but please think about how long it took you to become proficient at that craft. Don't assume that you will be a proficient knife maker overnight. Most makers here on this forum have taken a considerable amount of time working at this craft and most would readily admit they have a long way to go towards achieving perfection.

My advice to you would be to slow down, make a few blades, see how they turn out, use them extensively, make adjustments, and then maybe think about doing a run of knives for the public. I apologize if I sound a bit negative, but it seems to me that you have quite a bit more homework to do before making fifty of those.

Best of luck.
Click to expand...

Well said
 
NStricker said:
Whew! For a moment there I was afraid you were going to start talking about edge packing.

So, if I understand you correctly, you are doing stock removal for the most part, but then forging in a bevel, and then finishing the bevel by grinding?
Click to expand...

Correct
 
The effects forging has on steel are wiped out during heat treat. To borrow an analogy from another (much more knowledgeable) member here, its like carving an ice sculpture, melting it, and refreezing it expecting the same sculpture to be there. Are you properly heat treating your edge for the steel you are using after forging, normalizing, and grinding?


-Xander
 
MakerX said:
I did not say I need help.
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Geez I've seen plenty of people talking about how shop talk has changed but never really saw it for myself.

The people here are trying their best to save you time and effort to make the best knife you can possibly make, you gain nothing by ignoring advice.
 
Your whole plan and build methods need major improvement, i dont want to start on the pic you posted of your planned 50 run?? Do you even have a makers mark? What steel you gonna use?....heres a tip use 1095 its cheap and you can work a hamon in on a differiantial heat treat.:confused:
dont use dymonwood... no, no,..i know you were just using it on this and thaa...
Love to see your method at the the RC tester for gettin that bevel read?
Post some pics up, work on grinding, and edge geometry, refine your KNIFE buiding skills a bit before you take it to the public!
And if you were standing in my shop this is what youd be hearing from me, espicially if you asked my opinion like you did in this post!:D
So take it back to the bench maker X, and give it another try!
Greg
 
Filling in your profile would have been a good way to start, as it would have told us you are an experienced machinist, and not a teenager, which this thread sort of sounds like.

I will simply say that your metallurgy needs some more study, and forging an edge on a ground blade is a waste of time...especially if you think it will improve the edge.
As said by another, HT will determine the blade grain and structure, not pounding it with a large hammer.

You didn't state the steel type, either. That will make a huge difference on how you proceed with this project.

Your understanding of a hamon may need some reading and study,too.

How do you plan on doing the HT?

My biggest red flag is - Why on earth would anyone make a commercial slicing knife with a soft spine and a hard edge. If you have studied metallurgy at all, you should know that tempered martensite is far stronger than soft pearlite. Sorry, but I doubt you have read much on the subject.

Finally, making a commercial run of 50 knives when you are just starting out is like an apprentice machinist making a commercial run of complex rocket parts for NASA that he has never made before ( and does not understand how to do yet).




If what you wanted was advice to do exactly what you describe, I will say that the knife should be made from a carbon steel having .9% to 1.0% carbon and very low manganese and no other alloy ingredients. Hitachi Blue or White Paper steel would be a good steel to use. Your intended thickness is nearly twice what a slicer should be. If you are making a camp knife, .125" will be OK, but the knife doesn't seem to be that type.
Learning to get a good hamon takes a lot of practice, so by blade #50 you should be getting it down OK. Most of the others may be in the scrap bin.
The softness of the spine is set in the yaki-iri, and will be in the mid Rc40s. After tempering the edge is usually left at Rc59-61.

I would be greatly surprised if you can profitably make these in the right steel, and sell them at $100 each.....unless you don't count labor and tools ( are you using your own or your employers time and equipment?) And then you have to find 50 customers....which may not be as easy as it sounds.

Final comment - The handle needs a lot of thought. It is a poor design as is.

I would suggest going to the store and buying a $10 knife with similar shape. Take it home and look it over really well. The makers of that knife have make 1,000,000 of them, so they probably have a good idea of what works and what sells. You will notice that they don't look a whole lot like yours.
 
U guys are right I dont know enough, I will stop making knives and work on one of my other hobbies. I wont post here anymore. Thanks for the help.
 
Nobody is saying you shouldnt make knives or post here anymore. You have received some very sound advice from lots of experianced members to help you make the best knife possible. My advice is to just slow down a little bit and make 5 knives to the best of your ability and study them. Chances are that after even 5 knives you will see a difference between the first and last. Do stick around and try to make some knives, we all want to see you do it.


-Xander
 
This whole thread just makes Nick's point for him. Makes me sad somehow that we are not tuned up well enough to get through the noise and point the way - or to follow the way - without being pissy. Too bad.

Whatever happened to our collective humility and a gentle hand? It was not our job to solve all this guys shortcomings in one thread and while this guys knives don't mean squat to me, I definitely understand both why he came and why he left. He may not know everything but its not all on him either. Just saying.

Good will rules in the world of my choosing. Happy New Years gents!
 
MakerX said:
U guys are right I dont know enough........
Click to expand...

Admitting that is the secret at getting the most out of this forum.

Everyone just is trying to help you avoid wasting your time, money and materials as well as the wrath your customers will return with when their knife does not perform the way it should.
 
Not going anywhere. I'll close this thread.

I hope that MakerX will take the good things from the advice and stick around.
 
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