Opposite of early lock up on my large seb. Updated with a pic!

too solid

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I always worried about a failing lock with a lock up being to early. With my newly acquired seb it's the opposite. The lock bar pretty much almost touches the opposite sides titanium slab. Is this something to be concerned about? It's pretty stiff to disengage.

crklockup.png
 
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Is it a new or used sebenza...? CRK spec. is 50-75% but anytime I have asked them about lock-up, they always said as long as there is no blade play, you are good to go regardless of the % of lock-up. But they have also said, it should not touch the side normally under normal lock-up. Sometimes when I use my sebenza and am using a super tight grip, the lock-bar has touched the other side because of squeezing it hard. I have even asked CRK ( recently in fact ) about this and they relied that its perfectly normal and there is nothing to worry about...........If its a well used sebenza, the lock-bar can be re-heat treated and that will lower the lock-up% slightly. Tolerances are super fine as when they mill the blade tang to fit the lock-bar.... .005 is the difference between a 50% lockup and a 75% lock-up.

Hope this helps answer your question. At one time or another, we have ALL asked and wondered this very same question.
 
My brand-new small 21 is sitting at about 80-85%. I was concerned, but when I examined all of the models at my local shop, they all had exactly the same lockup, so I assumed it was ok.
 
Thanks nyefmaker, the lock bar covers 95%-100% off the blade. It doesn't have any blade play but is very stiff when disengaging. Probably not worthy of sending it in, right?
 
If it is a well used sebbie, take it apart and mark where the blade hits the stop pin, then spin the stop pin about 25% so that it hits a different spot and see where it locks up.

As nyefmaker states the slightest change can move the lockbar from 50% to 100%

If that helps then just mark the stop pin so that you can get it put back together the same.

As for the sticky lockbar that is quite common with the regular models, you can send it in and have them look at it, I had to send in a few of mine to get them "unsticky"

They remedied it and the turn around time was about 10 days at the time.


I just reread your post and didn't see the word "regular" sorry about that,

It is actually quite UNcommon for the 21's to be sticky, I would def. send it in if after you take it apart and inspect it and put it back together if it is the same.

Good luck!
 
I bought it from a member here recently. Basically like new dated sept or dec 2011. I forgot!
 
doesn't seem to be any damage, i took it apart and cleaned it a couple times. it doesn't really effect anything other then its stiffer to disengage then my other seb. no blade play, just wondering if over time this will result in an issue?
 
Personally, I would send it in. 95% is out of spec and as you said the lockbar is difficult to disengage. If you do send it in, be prepared to wait a little while.

I just sent 2 of my Sebs in last week and was told by Heather this morning that the current wait time for most knives is 4-6 weeks (it's usually 2-4 weeks).
 
I had the same problem with my Bg42 LR, may I suggest you to send a mail to CRK, Heather is a nice person, they will work out a solution.
They fixed it, today the lock bar doesn't move anyway after several years of use but not abuse :cool:
IMGP2527.jpg
 
Thanks for the pic and responses. I will shoot them an email and go from there. I probably should have asked for a picture of the lock up before purchasing. Wouldn't have mattered I still would have bought it. I love the snakewoods.
 
I think if it does what it is supposed to, lock up your blade, has no play, then you should be good to go. I don't think it should matter how early or late the lockup is. It should only be a factory if it starts to effect the function of what it is intended to do. I think too many people worry about it when there really shouldn't.
 
That's exactly how my large micarta looks, and it hasn't moved or developed play in the 6 months I've had it. I open/close it non stop when I'm carrying it also.
 
Thanks for the reassurance and responses. I agree with onlooker. Unless it effects the function I'm fine with it. It's a bit stiffer then my other seb to disengage but nothing I can't handle.

Thanks!
 
Hi,
Mine is the same 80%, I was worried at first, but it has remained the same after 6month of use. I am wondering if this is the norm for current production. I turned my stop pin t see if could reduce it, but no.
I would like to know is this how CRK change the lock up? by changing the diameter of the stop pin.
Rgds rusty.
 
I had the same problem with my Bg42 LR, may I suggest you to send a mail to CRK, Heather is a nice person, they will work out a solution.
They fixed it, today the lock bar doesn't move anyway after several years of use but not abuse :cool:
IMGP2527.jpg

I don't mean to sound ignorant, but what knife is that in your pic?
 
Hi,
Mine is the same 80%, I was worried at first, but it has remained the same after 6month of use. I am wondering if this is the norm for current production. I turned my stop pin t see if could reduce it, but no.
I would like to know is this how CRK change the lock up? by changing the diameter of the stop pin.
Rgds rusty.


No, the stop pin is perfectly round. Only after years of use there might form a flat spot and then if you rotate it can it decrease lockup. Only if there is a flat spot.

Each blade is fitted to the lock and checked for lockup. The lock is not fitted to the blade.

The later it is the more secure, CRK do not like early lockup as Chris feels it is less safe. (under correction, will have to watch the CRK dvd again)


Here is a lengthy post I did regarding liner and framelocks for reading pleasure.

Thanks for the video.

There are a few things I want to cover, based on my talking with custom makers and reading Bob Terzuola's book: The Tactical Folding Knife (hereafter BT), where he explains in detail the aspects of a good liner lock and the same principles are applied to framelocks.

Three points of contact:
1. Stop pin
2. Pivot pin
3. Interface between blade and spring (ie, lockface/lock engagement area hereafter referred to LF) Spring is also the liner lock, framelock.

This forms a triangle.

Now, the LF is the area lets focus on first.

BT. refers to the angle of the lock face to be between 7.5 and 8.5 degrees. Les then 5 degrees and the spring will jam. More then 10 degrees and the spring will start slipping off the LF.

Now the start of a radius lock face, the maximum therefore cannot exceed 10 degrees or else the lock will start slipping when the lock wears to that point. As mentioned as lock roll in the video when referring to the Strider.

Now.

Do not thing the angle plays the only role in the lock slipping. The finished LF can have a rough spot, not be polished enough, the spring's interface between the LF can also play a role.

Let us examine this from the Emerson website.

http://www.emersonknives.com/ekKnifeAnatomy.php

If the LF connected to the spring more in the middle or at the top of the spring where the detent is on most (point nr 3 closer to the pivot pin nr 2) then you would experience blade roll. This is when you have vertical type play but what happens is the blade actually rolls on the spring because the spring connects in the wrong place with the LF.

The picture shows the extremes of the different designs, you can have a lock that engages more then the bottom 0.90-.125" of the spring. Chris Reeve has proven this, but, you can also have a knife that engages only on that bottom 0.90" (point of contact in the picture)

Not every lock is the same. The basic ingredients are the same, but the final application is what the maker chooses. This can be seen even with Spyderco difference between the Military and the Gayle Bradly.

Now that is just the geometry of the lock.

The spring itself if it is Titanium can be heat treated or carbonized. Strider and Hinderer do the latter. This helps tremendously with wear on titanium and if done right will last you a life time. CRK and a few custom makers that I have do Heat Treating of the lock. Wear is about nun and equal to (if) steel was used.

HOWEVER. Titanium is NOT PERFECT and it can have flaws in it when received from the supplier. EVEN aerospace titanium (grade 5 titanium). These flaws only become apparent when it is used and is sometimes not even noticeable until it begins to form a problem. This is where a good warranty comes into play.

Steel used as a liner is not always the answer as well. Different steel interfaces can result in slipping. Steel on steel requires a lot of research to find what can be used and heat treated as a spring and still provide excellent wear resistance and safety.

Finally, lockup percentage is a strange thing and depends on the final user. I prefer later lockup as it usually means less chance of slipping off the LF.

I hope this helped you in some way.
 
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